Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 22nd, 2022

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You said previously—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

No, I'm done with this. I'm done with your intervention—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, you have to follow the rules here. You have to follow the rules.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We have a motion right now to adjourn debate.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You said previously that I was supposed to speak. You said....

Look at the list. My name's higher up than his on the list. Then Mr. Sorbara challenged it. That's why we're into challenges on the chair. If you had ruled that he had the floor, there wouldn't have been a challenge, but then he challenged the chair; Then the committee voted—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You're debating a decision that's already been made, and—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

—to sustain the chair. You reversed the meaning of a vote after it took place, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We have a motion to adjourn debate, and that is what we're on now.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

On a point of order, Mr. Chair, if it's confusing for you, it's confusing—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

As a point of order, Mr. McLean, you're just providing debate. There's no point of order there.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

You're not the chair, Francesco.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. McLean. You're just debating. You're just debating; it's not a point of order.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I'm not. I'm trying to get a point of order on where we were, because I voted to sustain—

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. McLean, you're not providing a point of order; you're just debating.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I need the clerk to read the names to vote to adjourn debate.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

No, I'm seeking clarification in this point of order.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. McLean, you're debating. You're not providing a point of order.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Sorbara, I am requesting clarification on—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Francesco wants to be the chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm asking everybody to shut your mikes down. We have a vote that's happening. I have called it. The vote is to adjourn debate on the motion.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

I want to hear from the clerk, Mr. Chair, on the vote that was taken previously and what the meaning of that vote was.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You're completely out of line, Mr. Genuis. We have a vote that is under way.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think the committee should be advised on what the previous vote was, because you changed the meaning of it afterwards. This is such an incredible abuse of privilege and process from a chair who is not being reasonable or fair.

Members need to know the meaning of a vote, and when the vote is that the ruling of the chair be sustained and when the previous ruling of the chair was very clearly that I should be next on the speaking list, and then you say, after all of the members vote to sustain the ruling of the chair and you reinterpret that to sustain your new ruling, which was different from your previous ruling, that's clearly pretty outrageous.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

No, what you're doing is outrageous, okay? I'm going to put that out there. We have had a number of decisions that you didn't like and that you continue to challenge, and now I'm saying we have a vote in front of us to adjourn debate—

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, you don't have to like what I'm doing, but I am defended by the rules of this House. I have the rules of the House that I can stand on that protect the rights and privileges of all members, and those rules exist outside of the will of a chair to exercise arbitrary power. Those rules and privileges protect our rights as members and they protect the work we do.

Some of those rules include the process by which a vote takes place, the fact that the question should be clear and that the question should be known, and that members should be able to clearly vote on a question. We had a situation in which, presumably, one half of the room thought the question meant one thing, and one half of the room thought the question meant another thing. That is a problem in and of itself, but on the face of it, I think it is very clear as well—