Evidence of meeting #5 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cap.
A recording is available from Parliament.
February 9th, 2022 / 1:20 p.m.
Conservative
Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB
I'm just thinking, for example, if we're moving off oil and gas, of perhaps other products that could be used. I'm just trying to get a sense, because you haven't really told me what.... There are a lot of questions here that industry and the environmental community have on what guidance you've been providing, and I've just heard over and over again that you haven't provided that guidance, so maybe I'll try to structure my questions more on some of your modelling that you've used.
Has any of your guidance accounted for potential carbon leakage, so that by regulating or putting a hard cap on Canada's oil and gas sector we would be displacing that product or that production to other higher carbon-emitting jurisdictions?
1:20 p.m.
Co-Chair, Net-Zero Advisory Body
The one thing that I'll just clarify here is that most of your questions are looking for a degree of resolution that we're not interpreting as being in our task. Our thinking is at a higher strategic level—to really make sure that the government has the responsibility to set the target. It's not our job to set the targets.
1:20 p.m.
Conservative
1:20 p.m.
Conservative
1:20 p.m.
Co-Chair, Net-Zero Advisory Body
I'll answer your last question here about carbon leakage. One thing that we're quite adamant about as an advisory body is sticking to our mandate as it was given to us in the act and in the terms of reference. Our mandate—
1:20 p.m.
Conservative
1:20 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
A point of order, Mr. Chair.
I am sorry, I do not want to slow Ms. Rempel Garner down when she is on a roll, but she really goes very fast and I feel that it makes the interpreters' work impossible. At the moment, I cannot follow the discussion.
I do not want to slow Ms. Rempel Garner down. I know she is passionate. But if she could leave a little gap between the comments, so that the interpreters can do their job, I am sure that they would appreciate it.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Okay. Thank you, Mr. Simard, for your intervention. I would encourage people to allow each other to finish before starting, because otherwise it is impossible for the interpreters to do their jobs and provide the translation.
Unfortunately, I do have to cut you off here. That is the end of the six minutes. Thank you for the first round.
We're going to jump right now to Ms. Dabrusin, who will have six minutes for her questions.
1:20 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here.
I want to go back to the net-zero pathways report that was put out and ask some questions about net zero and what's included and what isn't. Principle number four was don't get caught in the net. I wonder if you could help me better understand where you're going with that in terms of the net and net zero.
1:20 p.m.
Co-Chair, Net-Zero Advisory Body
My apologies, Mr. Chair and Mr. Simard. I will speak more slowly to allow translation to keep up.
One of the things we found when we produced our first report—and here I'll add an important qualification. We produced a report after meeting with 14 groups or organizations from around the world that had already produced a full society pathway to net zero. So instead of starting from scratch on our work to give the government advice, we and the government thought it prudent to meet with groups that had already done this. We met with 14 groups, and instead of summarizing the work of those 14 at a very detailed technical level, we decided to draw emergent conclusions in the form of values and principles that would guide our future work. These 10 values and principles are not really the Net-Zero Advisory Body's work; they are the emergent observations of the work of the 14 groups globally.
The concept of not getting caught in the net reflects their equation of net zero. Net zero does not mean zero. Net zero occurs when you have emissions going into the atmosphere and you subtract emissions coming out of the atmosphere whether through natural removal or technological removal. Those are very legitimate tools to use to get to net zero. However, one risk we feel that governments, societies, sectors and companies should be extremely aware of is that there will be a tendency for people not to want to change underlying emitting systems and to instead rely on removals. We feel that is not a recipe for success to get to net zero and that the concept of removal, the netting part of the equation, should be reserved for the absolutely most difficult emissions to reduce to zero. To put it another way, all of us should be pushing hard to reduce our emissions as much as we possibly can and reserving removal technologies for the most difficult emissions the closer we get to 2050.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Thank you.
I was going to also say that I think the issue for interpretation was more the speaking over each other and not the speed at which we're speaking. I didn't want to interrupt you, but you can speak at a regular pace.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
What we we're talking about when we're saying “net zero” and what's included from the IPCC standards did come up at our last committee meeting. For example, if we're producing oil here, the emissions from that production are included in our emissions that we calculate for our country. If it is exported and used in a different country, does that get included?
Oh, no. Now I don't hear you, Mr. Wicklum.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Yes, of course; I would be happy for you to do that, Ms. Ippersiel.
1:25 p.m.
Co-Chair, Net-Zero Advisory Body
Canada's commitment to net-zero will certainly include all greenhouse gases. But it will also be limited geographically to the emissions generated in Canada, in all sectors, not only in oil and gas.
We must remember that this conforms to international standards of measuring GHGs, requiring each country to account for the emissions produced within its borders. Emissions from exports that produce GHGs are accounted for in the country that uses them. I don't know whether that answers your question.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Yes, that is exactly what I wanted to know.
Thank you very much.
1:25 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
I know that I do not have a lot of time left, but I would like to ask another question. In your opinion, can border carbon adjustments play a role in achieving net‑zero emissions?
1:25 p.m.
Co-Chair, Net-Zero Advisory Body
I will let Mr. Wicklum answer that.