Evidence of meeting #80 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was point.
A recording is available from Parliament.
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Mr. Sorbara, I would ask you to be direct and succinct on your point of order so we can proceed with the next point of order.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
Chair, I very much wish to be quite brief.
I put forward a motion, I believe a regular scheduling motion, for our committee to go over Bill C-50 and Bill C-49.
It is November 8 today, if I am correct. We would have had the minister here with us today at committee looking at two important pieces of legislation for all Canadians and for all parts of the country. I believe there's an amendment on the table, or a subamendment on the floor, if I could get clarification.
There's a subamendment that is being debated right now. I would hope that all parties can get to a point where we can vote on the subamendment and then vote on the revised amendment.
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
Liberal
6 p.m.
Liberal
Francesco Sorbara Liberal Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON
I am most certainly asking a procedural question on where we are.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Colleagues, I want to provide a reminder once again. We had a motion on the floor by Mr. Sorbara on the Canadian sustainable jobs act, Bill C-50, and the Atlantic accords, Bill C-49. We have an amendment brought forward to Mr. Sorbara's main motion by Ms. Stubbs. We have had a subamendment brought forward by Mr. Falk.
We are on the subamendment by Mr. Falk. Mr. Angus has the floor on the subamendment with many other members waiting.
We have a few folks on a point of order. I'm going to go through the points of order of a few people.
I'm going to go to Ms. Stubbs first on a point order. Then we'll go to the next member after Ms. Stubbs.
Ms. Stubbs, as I reminded other committee members, please be succinct on your point order.
The floor is yours on the point of order.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Mr. Chair, I have two points of order.
What would you like me to address?
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Ms. Stubbs, I'm not sure what your point of order is, but I would ask you not to get into debate but to present your point of order so if we need to make a ruling, we can make that ruling. If it's a point of order of concern, you can raise it. Just be succinct on your point of order so we can proceed with other members and their points of order.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Thanks, Chair.
I would just point out that I thank Mr. Kelloway for his participation here. I do look forward to his support of my subamendment, which of course is asking for Bill C-49 to be studied first, as it was introduced, passed and time allocated through the House of Commons. Of course, Mr. Sorbara's scheduling programming motion puts it second. I just want to clarify that.
Chair, to the point of order related to chapter 20, we had asked to hear from the clerk on a number of issues. I just want to quote chapter 20.
Is that okay?
You've addressed chapter 20 a lot, so I'm going to too.
As a non-partisan and independent officer, the clerk serves equally all members of the committee as well as representatives of all parties;
The clerk advises all members:
The Clerk is at the service of all Members, regardless of party affiliation, and must act with impartiality and discretion.
Of course, there are a lot more words than that. I'm sure the clerk can advise you.
We on a number of occasions have asked for the clerk, who serves us equally and in a non-partisan way and who would respond to us all as MPs who are duly elected and equal in our capacities here on behalf of the people who have sent us here to do these jobs.... Although it's a pattern, I guess, of censorship and shutting down free speech, I just wonder why we can't actually have the clerk address us on a number of issues we're raising that relate to a lack of confidence and credibility in the chair's own equal and impartial enforcement of the rules.
Why is it that we can't hear from the clerk when we've asked to hear from the clerk?
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you, Ms. Stubbs.
I appreciate the confidence of—
Ms. Dabrusin, I will go to your point of order, but I just want to comment and rule.
The chair has been elected by committee members to work on behalf of the committee.
6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
If there is a challenge to the chair on a ruling, committee members have the right to challenge the chair. I have yet, at today's meeting, to hear a challenge of the chair. If there's a ruling that members do not like or if they do not like the speaking order that's in place, then as has been the case previously at this committee, they have the ability to challenge the chair. The chair is here to work on—
6 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Mr. Chair, I didn't ask about you; I asked about the clerk and hearing from the clerk as a non-partisan servant of this committee and all members of Parliament despite our partisan affiliations.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Ms. Stubbs, I would ask you not to turn on your mike until you are recognized.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
You would understand that one feels one doesn't know how else to be heard.
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
I would ask colleagues to challenge the chair.
Once again, as members of this committee, you have elected me as your chair.
Thank you, Mr. Angus and others.
I would ask all members, while I have the floor—when the red light on this mike is on, it means I have the floor—allow me to finish what I'm saying so the interpreters can clearly interpret what I am saying.
What I am saying is that this committee has elected me as the chair of this committee. If a member does not like my ruling, a member can challenge the chair. I would ask members to challenge a decision if you do not believe it's is a decision you like. Members of this committee have the power, through that mechanism, to vote to uphold and sustain the ruling of the chair or overturn the ruling. That is the power that members of Parliament have on this committee.
Ms. Dabrusin, you had a point of order. I will go to you on the point of order.
6 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Mr. Chair, I believe that each time the members opposite say that they have lost confidence in the decision of the chair and actively say that they do not....
I have heard the members opposite say that they disagree with your ruling that Mr. Angus has the floor, which is a ruling that you made days ago now. If they are not respecting your ruling, I believe they are challenging the chair.
If they are not challenging the chair, I would say let's give Mr. Angus the floor so we can continue with the subamendment.
6 p.m.
Conservative
October 30th, 2023 / 6 p.m.
Conservative
6 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
I have a few points of order here and I'm trying to get—
Mr. Patzer, do you have a point of order on Ms. Dabrusin's point of order?
As I've stated to all members, I would ask you to be direct and succinct with your point of order, so we can move to the next point of order.
Go head, directly on the point of order that Ms. Dabrusin made, please.
6 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
It's building off a point that she had made. I think this might help provide clarity, so that we can proceed. I think it's in the best interest of the committee, I would assume.
It goes all the way back a couple of meetings. A point of privilege was raised. The words from your mouth were that you granted the point of privilege to Mr. Genuis.
If you read a little bit further in chapter 20—
