Natural Resources Committee on April 14th, 2026

[Darren Christie]

I'm sorry. Would you repeat that?

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

It's the old story. We ship oil to the United States, and then we buy it back. There's a premium paid on it, so we're poorer as a country because the Liberals changed the regulation to kill energy east.

I'll shift to the international side. How could it have affected international relations given issues like the energy crisis in Europe? Would energy east have strengthened our position in the free world? Anyone?

I'll switch projects. Another pipeline that was killed because of a regulation fully paid for by the private sector was northern gateway. Has a calculation ever been done on what northern gateway would have added to our economy if it had been completed?

[Darren Christie]

As part of the regulatory review process, there would have been information submitted by the project proponent. The report from the regulator would have relied on that evidence, which would have included economic impacts as part of the overall study from the proponent.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

Can you endeavour to provide that number?

[Darren Christie]

We can find what was submitted to the regulator.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

This is another important project for our sovereignty and for the strength of our country.

Would the northern gateway project have strengthened Canadian sovereignty and reduced our dependence on the United States if the Liberals hadn't killed it through regulation changes?

[Darren Christie]

At present, there is some amount of spare capacity available, including to coastal markets. Where we would be right now if a pipeline that wasn't built had been built is a difficult counterfactual to talk about.

[Corey Tochor, Conservative, Saskatoon—University, SK]

I'm from Saskatchewan. We are about to enter seeding, and we're all hopeful for another bumper crop. There's deep concern that because the Liberals have killed energy east, northern gateway and a number of other pipelines, once that bumper crop gets off, the rails are going to be full with oil, as that's the only way we can get that energy to market. With a spike in prices, it will bump that crop off.

There are serious concerns in western Canada that because of not even the inaction of the Liberals, but the purposely blocking of pipelines, there will be families who won't be able to feed themselves because that crop is not going to get to markets. It won't be any family in this room, but around the world, families will be starving because of the effects of the regulation changes the Liberals have enacted that killed projects like northern gateway.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Tochor. That's your time.

We're going to Mr. Guay for six minutes.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I think that we can discuss more than just oil and gas. I would like to talk about electricity, for example. Mr. Leyburne, I think that my question is for you.

The Prime Minister and Minister Hodgson recently spoke about the need for a national electricity strategy that applies across the country and that reduces barriers between the provinces. We'll need to double the country's power grid to keep up with demand.

How can the Government of Canada improve Canada's ability to meet its domestic electricity generation needs, which would also help to export that electricity? We currently export electricity, but we face challenges. If the government helps to overcome them, we can export more electricity. How can our government help?

[Drew Leyburne]

Yes, you're correct that electricity plays an important part in Canada's energy export story. While not as big as some other commodities, it does represent billions of dollars in exports every year. Canada is the world's third-largest exporter of electricity, and for obvious reasons of geography, it would be the United States' largest producer of imported electricity.

There are multiple opportunities to increase those numbers. They have actually decreased from time to time in recent years because of issues like drought that affect the ability of hydro projects to produce and export electricity. The more that Canada is able to get electrons moving between provinces and territories, the more that frees things up and provides flexibility for exports. Efforts like energy efficiency to reduce Canadian domestic demand also free up electrons for future exports to markets where often they can reach higher prices in the U.S.

Those are, I would say, the main areas that we're looking at right now.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Another aspect is nuclear power generation. If we strengthen this industry, I think that it will help stabilize the power grid. This could also help Canada export other types of energy.

Is that right?

[Drew Leyburne]

That's correct. Nuclear will certainly result in a major increase in electricity generation in Canada if some of the forecasted reactors in Ontario, New Brunswick, Saskatchewan and Alberta move forward. It's also worth mentioning that the nuclear industry in its own right is a major source of exports for Canada as well. In uranium in 2024, we reached an all-time high, with nearly $4 billion in exports just in uranium, and an equal or greater amount in nuclear technology and services. It's a pretty significant export opportunity that will continue to grow as Canada establishes itself even further as a tier one nuclear nation.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Leyburne.

Ms. Lavoie, the Government of Canada has identified the port of Churchill, in close co-operation with Manitoba's Crown-indigenous corporation, which is helping spearhead the project, as key to Canada's energy export future and an opportunity for indigenous equity ownership. Can you speak more to us about that?

[Kimberly Lavoie, Assistant Deputy Minister, Nòkwewashk, Department of Natural Resources]

The port of Churchill is on track to becoming more of a four-season port, which increases opportunity for exports to Europe and elsewhere.

As we look at the opportunities ahead of us—the port of Churchill, as a strategy, has been referred to the Major Projects Office—there is an opportunity to partner with the Province of Manitoba, as well as with a multitude of indigenous nations. There are first nations in Manitoba that are interested in potentially being part of a natural gas pipeline that might export out of there. There's interest in having an equity stake in the railway. There is also interest in the transportation system that might take things from the port of Churchill elsewhere.

There are numerous opportunities from both a first nations perspective and an Inuit perspective. The Inuit of Nunavik as well as Nunavut—as we look at where boats may go along that route—are very much interested in the opportunities this provides. Certainly, there have been discussions with the Canada Infrastructure Bank around some of those opportunities, because they allow for indigenous equity, and there's the indigenous loan guarantee program, which is operated out of the Canada Development Investment Corporation, or CDEV.

Conversations are ongoing around what these opportunities may be, but the opportunities are there, and there is interest.

[Claude Guay, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC]

Thank you.

Ms. O'Brien, this is probably a quick one.

We just announced a 50-year export licence for LNG in budget 2025. This increases certainty and makes gas export projects more financially viable and de-risked.

Am I correct about that? What have you observed that would support this measure?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

It will have to be a quick answer, please.

[Erin O'Brien, Assistant Deputy Minister, Fuels Sector, Department of Natural Resources]

The short answer is yes. The expectation is that the measure will make a number of LNG projects developing across our country more competitive.

In addition to that measure, budget 2025 also included the extension of an accelerated capital cost allowance—a measure to support the competitiveness of LNG projects.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you both.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Leyburne, you said earlier in your opening remarks that Canada was an energy power that could contribute to global energy security and respond to uncertainty. This brings to mind two witnesses, Professor Normand Mousseau and Professor Pineau, who appeared before us. They came to tell us that, in their opinion, Canada wasn't an energy superpower that could influence energy prices around the world.

We understand the current geopolitical situation, which is creating major distortions. However, I think that efforts are currently being made to mislead people by claiming that producing more oil in Canada could result in lower prices at the pump. I would like to hear the CER officials' opinion on this matter, as well as your view, Mr. Leyburne.

If I go by what the experts say, I don't think that producing more oil in Canada would lower the price at the pump. As you know, oil prices are managed by the stock market. Canada's production would have almost no effect on the stock market.

Can you dispel the myth that pump prices would be lower if Canada were to produce more oil?

[Drew Leyburne]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to pass this question to my colleague Erin, who's dealing with oil and gas more directly.

[Erin O'Brien]

With respect to Canada's standing in oil and gas markets, I'm sure the committee is well aware that Canada is currently the world's fourth- and fifth-largest oil- and gas-producing country. This affords us many economic benefits across the country.

That being said, despite being one of the world's largest oil producers, we remain tied to global oil pricing, especially for refined fuels. As such, the increased pricing due to the current conflict is translating into increased prices at the pump. Even if we increase our domestic oil production, we are still subject to global pricing, so we will see the effects on our economy through that vector.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you. This myth has endured for ages. I think that some of my colleagues have a vested interest in spreading it. So Canadian oil production, which is reportedly on the rise, bears no relation to the price that we pay at the pump. Thank you for that clear answer.

As part of this study, we're also trying to look at infrastructure. If Canada wants to export more energy, we'll need infrastructure. Yet I have a nagging sense that people in the industry aren't ready to take on the financial risk of infrastructure.

When it comes to the work of our analysts, I think that you could do something helpful. I imagine that you could provide an overview of the industry's investments in infrastructure over a period of 20 or even 30 years. I wonder whether you could submit this overview to the committee. It would be quite useful to us.

By infrastructure investments, I don't mean the maintenance of the current infrastructure, or the investments that most industries must make to maintain our infrastructure. I'm talking about investments in new infrastructure. It seems that, over a period of 20 or 30 years, the industry hasn't invested much. We're currently trying to put the monkey on the back of the government by saying that the lack of investment stems from its regulatory environment.

Could you give the committee data on the industry's investments in infrastructure?

[Erin O'Brien]

I'm sure we could provide that information.

Just for clarity, are you seeking information on all infrastructure investments, or did I hear that you are only looking for greenfield?

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

A breakdown of the information would be helpful. You know, when it comes to the major industries, I've often been told about the millions of dollars invested but mostly directed towards infrastructure maintenance. These investments don't necessarily seek to boost production or increase marketing. I understand that companies must invest in infrastructure maintenance. If you could provide some type of breakdown of these investments to show how much the industry has actually invested in infrastructure to boost exports, I would be curious to look at this over a period of 20 or 30 years. I think that this would provide a good overview of the situation.

I think that Mr. Leyburne would also like to respond.