Evidence of meeting #34 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was pipeline.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Well, my first question was 10 seconds, and he went on for 35. If you want to adjudicate like that, you go ahead, Chair, or I'm going to have to.
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
What we said is that China is the second-largest trading country in the world. It is an important trading partner. We had a paused relationship with China. We are rebuilding our relations with China. We have a pragmatic engagement in which we have a clear window on areas where we agree and areas where we don't agree.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Let me just ask you about one of the projects that you recently referred to the MPO, the Grays Bay project, with that road that leads to this Chinese state-owned Izok mine. You said Arctic security is a top priority. Conservatives have always said that. We agree. Does your government view this as a national security concern? Can you answer whether that mine has been designated for a national security review under the Investment Canada Act or by the MPO, which your legislation also seems to set out to be the MPO's role?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
The Grays Bay road and port are a national security priority. It is an Arctic development priority. It is an economic priority. There are many deposits along that road. Many potential proponents will be bringing things forward.
To my knowledge, the company that I think you're referring to has not come forward and proposed a mine. If it did propose a mine, we would look at it at that time.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Is it easy for you, as minister concerned about Canada's security and sovereignty, to rule out—
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Can I actually finish my question?
Would you rule out a majority Chinese ownership of Canadian resource development in oil and gas or critical minerals?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
We have the Investment Canada Act. We have the ability to look at any new investment in the country. We'll evaluate it against the realities of the time. If we deemed it a net benefit to Canada, it would proceed.
We have Chinese—
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
The Prime Minister has said that China is Canada's greatest security threat.
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
China is a major owner in LNG Canada, phase one. In that situation—
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid
Folks, that's the time for this round.
I'm going to Mr. Clark for six minutes.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
Minister and officials, thank you very much for being here this afternoon.
Minister, one thing that's come up during the course of our study on energy exports is issues around regulatory certainty and simplicity. I know that's something that you, the Prime Minister and the government have been very focused on since the election last year. One of the key pieces of that is to sign co-operation and substitution agreements with as many provinces and territories as possible. My own province of Nova Scotia signed one about a month ago, when the Prime Minister was in Halifax with Premier Houston.
Minister, can you give us an update on where those agreements stand and the positive impact you think they will have on the energy future of the country?
Liberal
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
In addition to establishing the Major Projects Office, the work is under way to secure co-operation agreements with each and every province and territory to establish the concept of “one project, one review”. To date, seven agreements have been signed. Those agreements are with Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta, and there is an existing one with B.C. from when we started this process. One additional jurisdiction has a draft working document and two are close to having draft agreements developed or finalized.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
Minister, what would you say is the primary benefit—not just for governments, but more importantly, as you talked about in the previous round, for proponents and people who want to do business here in the country—of having those agreements in place?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
One of the things we've heard very clearly from proponents is that they would like to see a de-pancaking of regulation. Where there is overlapping federal and provincial or territorial regulation, they'd like to see that collapsed into one set of engagements around regulation and one set of consultations.
The concept of “one project, one review” says that where the federal government has an agreement with a province and there is an equivalency of their regulations, the federal government will step aside. We will rely on the work that the provincial government does. If it does that work, we will conclude that it's done the equivalent of what we would do and we will step aside.
The most poignant example of that is the Ksi Lisims LNG facility. Last fall, the B.C. government approved what will be the second-largest private sector investment in the history of the country. It's an over $30-billion new export facility. That project was approved on a Monday at four o'clock in the afternoon by the B.C. government, and at 4:30 that same day, the federal government approved it, relying on the work of the B.C. government.
When “one project, one review” works properly, that's what we should see happen.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
That's a wonderful example. Having been on the provincial side, I know that it's wonderful when we can work together to simplify and harmonize those things, as you say.
Minister, another priority would be electricity. We know that demand for electricity is likely going to double here in Canada over the next couple of decades. We will need to work together with provinces, territories and indigenous groups to modernize and expand the supply and distribution of electricity in this country.
Could you share with us what work is under way in the department and what investments might be included in the estimates that will help us meet that significant demand over the next 10 to 20 years?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
Thank you for that great question.
We're working with provinces, territories and indigenous partners more closely than ever to better connect our grids from east to west and to provide more affordable and reliable power for Canadians. This builds on the significant existing federal commitments in investment tax credits, strategic financing and targeted programs.
Of note is NRCan's total commitment of $4.5 billion from the 2021-22 fiscal year to the 2035-36 fiscal year to support the deployment of grid modernization, energy storage, renewable energy and transmission projects across Canada, as well as predevelopment and capacity-building projects, helping communities and organizations develop renewable energy and grid modernization projects.
We're just getting started. We will be announcing a new electricity strategy in the coming weeks, and I'll have more to say about this then.
Liberal
Braedon Clark Liberal Sackville—Bedford—Preston, NS
That's wonderful.
In your response, you touched on storage. I think storage is an underappreciated but critically important part of the electricity question we're raising here. We talk about renewables, and obviously that's going to be an increasingly important part of the mix in the years and decades to come. However, at times, renewables are intermittent, with solar and wind obviously being the true prime examples of that.
From your perspective, Minister, how important is storage, and how can we continue to accelerate that so we can harness that energy, which is not always as reliable as more traditional sources?
Liberal
Tim Hodgson Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
As you know, grid-scale storage is an important part of developing DERs in the new grid systems we're building. We've been working with different provincial utilities to look at ways to do that in the most cost-effective way. We've also been exploring what other countries around the world are doing.
When I was in China and India, we looked at some of the exceptional grid storage capabilities they have, and we have looked at potentially bringing that technology to Canada.
Liberal