Natural Resources Committee on June 2nd, 2026

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

I would like to pick up on this. Hydroelectricity accounts for 40% of Quebec's overall energy mix. If we look at Canada as a whole, we see that 17% of the energy mix is made up of electricity. We aren't just talking about hydroelectricity. We're talking about all types of electricity combined.

Electricity currently accounts for 32% of China's energy mix. So doubling the share of electricity in Canada's energy mix by 2050 would amount to catching up with present‑day China.

Do you think that this is an ambitious goal, or could the government have set a more substantial target for 2050 in this situation?

[Kevin Lockhart]

I will quickly say that I think it is an ambitious goal, but it's well within our capacity. It presents an excellent opportunity to drive economic growth and supply chain opportunities. These are new combinations largely coming from leaders like Quebec. How can we take those and package those as profitable packages?

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you both.

Mr. Lawton, we'll go to you. Welcome to the committee.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. It's great to be here and to delve into a very important issue. I appreciate it.

Mr. Lockhart, just to put into context your opening statement, you indicated that Canada's electricity system should have, in your words, “the full scope” of basically options recommended. Did I understand you correctly in that?

[Kevin Lockhart]

I'm sorry. I don't recall the full scope, but I think—

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

It was “the full scope of Canada's energy”.

[Kevin Lockhart]

Absolutely. Yes.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Does that include oil and gas?

[Kevin Lockhart]

It does. I think there are opportunities to really use electrification to then drive high-value uses or high-value demand for fuels like oil and gas and others. It uses fuel where it's most appropriate, but it also really drives that highest value.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

The Prime Minister was head of the Bank of England. He said, “Achieving net zero will require a whole economy transition—every company, every bank, every insurer and every investor will have to adjust their business models.”

Are you seeing that reflected in this Liberal government's policy right now?

[Kevin Lockhart]

Again, I think the clean electricity strategy is an opportunity to do just that. It represents an opportunity to help Canadians in terms of affordable energy uses. It also helps provide new opportunities through the development of the supply chain.

I can't overstate, if we're talking about doubling the size of the electricity grid at the same time as we're talking about retrofits in the scale of 3% to 5% retrofit rates, that there is a vast economic opportunity. The delivery of that strategy and the integration of the different components will be really key.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

People say this, but the problem when you make this argument that there's an economic opportunity is that if that were the case, we'd see this on its own. Companies are actually moving away from a lot of these things that Mark Carney was trying to bludgeon them into for much of the last decade.

I'll go back to his quote, where he said, “a whole economy transition—every company, every bank, every insurer and every investor”. That was a pretty extreme proclamation he was making. Are you seeing that commitment reflected in Liberal policy right now?

[Kevin Lockhart]

If I understood the question correctly, I can speak to two different sectors: finance and insurance. Particularly in the latter, we are seeing a shift towards recognizing the benefits of, for example, retrofits and more resilient buildings, because they recognize the challenge they have in front of them and—

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

I would like to ask about the Liberal government's approach to this.

We know 14 Liberal MPs have specifically called out—I'm using the exact words here—“the government's credibility” on climate issues. It's interesting that we have a Prime Minister trying to say both things simultaneously. When he's in one room, he's talking about how he's the net-zero champion and the aggressive accelerator of the transition. Then, in other rooms, he tries to cosplay as someone who develops the oil and gas sector in Canada.

I'm curious. As a group that has a long-standing track record of advocating for things I don't always agree with, are you happy with the Prime Minister's performance right now?

[Kevin Lockhart]

We're still in a wait-and-see mode, although I'm cautiously optimistic that we'll see progress on the electricity strategy, as well as on Canada's energy future.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

We all have to do our part. I think that would be the agreement. I know there are some members of Parliament who are very committed and who want to conserve and use less energy. Mr. Danko, for example, is saving energy by not having a constituency office open. We all serve in different ways.

I wonder if you're seeing the level of leadership from this Liberal government that you would like to see. I have only a few seconds left. It's a very simple yes-or-no question.

[Kevin Lockhart]

It would be hard for me to say yes or no based on that. As I mentioned, my knowledge area is buildings. We continue to see movement within that space, and we continue to look forward to the future.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

That's pretty much your time, Mr. Lawton.

Thank you, both.

Mr. St‑Pierre, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Similar to my colleague from Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, I'll focus, singularly, on the one witness today. I appreciate his sense of humour.

Mr. Lockhart, as our economy electrifies and as Canada aims to double its grid by 2050—as announced recently in the electricity strategy—what role can energy efficiency play in helping to add new power capacity while also reducing demand?

[Kevin Lockhart]

In terms of adding new power capacity, there are two components.

First, we can help offset that needed power capacity through different efficiency programs—building retrofits, energy efficiency or measures outside of that—or through distributed resources. We can then use those to offset the need and really focus on local communities through those actions.

On the other side of the coin, we can add those distributed resources to then add to our generation mix. Again, it's not just about renewables, say. It's also about local generation paired with battery storage. That battery storage helps mitigate the need for additional resources, particularly peak plants that generally have a high emissions rate. In doing so, we offset the need for new infrastructure, lower the cost of the new infrastructure needed and see savings in terms of emissions.

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

The Pembina Institute is based in Alberta. There's an interesting organization called Alberta Ecotrust, which has a climate innovation fund. They do a lot of retrofits of multiresidential and commercial buildings.

I'm curious about whether you can talk about financing. What's the role of capital in leveraging energy retrofits? Maybe you can comment quickly on pace financing, if that's relevant.

[Kevin Lockhart]

The deeper retrofits in particular—which take an envelope-first approach, and so a building's exterior, to help reduce demand and then the size and cost of the mechanical equipment, including operating costs—can help with lowering that....

I'm sorry, but let me just step back a moment. As I mentioned, the deeper those retrofits are, the bigger the upfront costs. They are higher than those of standard non-energy efficiency retrofits. However, in our work and from what we're seeing in the market, insurance is responding by starting to explore rate offerings or insurance offerings that recognize the avoided risk of extreme climate events. We're also seeing financial firms come to the table to look at how they can quantify non-energy benefits—things like greater comfort in the building, which can lead to greater tenant retention and lower turnover, all of which help to increase either the operating income or the revenue of the building and then help offset those upfront costs. The financial and insurance systems are maturing quickly in that respect and really looking at how they can help lower those costs of retrofits and new construction.

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Great. Thanks.

I might slide in one last question.

Earlier in your testimony, you mentioned the green industrial facilities program. Can you comment on the effectiveness of that program? Should it be renewed or continued? I'm curious as to why you mentioned it.

[Kevin Lockhart]

I mentioned the program because it has been effective at moving some of those larger projects, where the largest savings can often be made. The higher the energy demand, the more opportunity there is for cutting energy waste in sectors and areas that don't always have that opportunity to participate in programs, so it really connects the direct action to the need.

[Eric St-Pierre, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Efficiency Canada has also released reports that indicate that over half a million jobs are related to energy efficiency. In 15 seconds, can you comment on the importance of Canadian jobs in the retrofit efficiency sector?