Natural Resources Committee on June 2nd, 2026

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Tremblay, you know that I have been an admirer of yours ever since I visited your facilities. Every member here has met someone who wants to propose an industrial project and who is inevitably told, particularly in Quebec, that without a power supply, it will be difficult to receive government support because the project will be undermined. You therefore offer a solution to this kind of problem. Furthermore, you are part of an industrial cluster, a value chain, that is taking shape and that we want to see established in the hydroelectric sector.

I'll stop showering you with praise and start asking you questions. It would be important for us to understand the principle—or the challenge—of managing electrical power. You won't be able to answer me in five minutes, but it would be important to provide documents to our analysts so that we can include a section in our report addressing this challenge—one we too often overlook—in order to explain what the challenge of managing electrical power entails.

I'll give an example you've already provided me with: an industrial project in Quebec that required more than five megawatts, for which you managed to reduce consumption below the established level. Consequently, there was no need to request the purchase of a power block from Hydro-Québec, and the project was able to move forward thanks to the storage system you provided to the project developer.

I'd like you to tell us about some specific applications that can work in the industrial sector, but that I believe can also work in the military sector. You also participated in the CANSEC 2026 trade show last week.

As for the mining sector in the north, you may offer applications that could meet the needs of remote northern communities. Can you tell us about the systems you sell that could address such needs?

[Martin Tremblay]

Thank you for the flowers, Mr. Simard. I was hoping the pot would not follow. Thank you.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

[Inaudible]

[Martin Tremblay]

You are quite right; IDEA Contrôle worked on a new plant project that initially required a power capacity of over five megawatts. The project developer therefore had to automatically respond to a government call for bids in order to be granted this power capacity.

Often, the utility limits us to the substation. It is therefore important to control the power at this substation.

Today, we are in the process of building the plant, which has energy storage that limits power demand to less than five megawatts. The power initially requested was, however, greater than this amount of energy. We therefore shortened the construction timeline for this plant by providing it with the power capacity it needed within six months. Otherwise, it would have had to wait two years before receiving authorization to acquire the Hydro-Québec power block.

Off grid, energy storage effectively stabilizes stand-alone grids through better generator management. Fuel oil consumption for a generator in an isolated grid in the north can be reduced by 20% to 25% simply by implementing a strategy to optimize the generator's production capacity. Therefore, if diesel consumption decreases by 20% to 25%, this reduces the frequency of transport by 25 times, among other benefits. The logistics required to transport this energy to the north are also reduced.

Batteries are a very good complement to all technologies, even those Mr. Calzado mentioned in the wind and solar energy sectors. For solar energy, we must not forget that, due to clouds, the weather is not always sunny. Of all the renewable energy sources that provide stability, batteries come out on top, both for the power grid and in the industrial sector.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Regarding government support, the products you offer are eligible for the federal government's 30% tax credit.

Are there any other measures that would be beneficial and that the federal government could implement to facilitate the deployment of the type of solutions you offer?

[Martin Tremblay]

When we receive a response to a grant application, one of the key concerns is often whether the client is aware of energy-related issues. Federal grant programs allow us to receive a 30% tax credit for an electrical energy storage project, but we believe this percentage is insufficient.

We agree that the client benefits significantly from the energy storage strategy and that the client should pay a portion of the cost. However, if I compare this to the 250-megawatt battery storage system installation project in Ontario that I mentioned earlier, we're talking about a cost of $2,400 per kilowatt installed for daily peak management. This covers a four-hour period each day. The subsidy we currently receive is approximately $500 per kilowatt. That leaves $1,500, which the customer must pay to install a battery on the customer side of the meter. What I am suggesting is to increase the subsidy to $1,000 per kilowatt on the industrial side, which is 50%.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

We will now move on to our second round, colleagues.

We're going to start with Mr. Baber for five minutes.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Tremblay.

[Martin Tremblay]

Thank you.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I have a basic question for you.

Do you think that the Liberal industrial carbon tax increases or decreases the price of electricity?

[Martin Tremblay]

It is true that in Quebec, we have hydroelectricity, which means that the cost of electricity does not necessarily change. However, when the strategy is to promote the use of fossil fuels, of course, I expect the price of electricity to rise.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Mr. Tremblay, you're in the energy business. I'm not just talking about Quebec manufacturers, but manufacturers that rely on, for instance, natural gas to provide electricity.

Would their price of production be increased or decreased by virtue of the industrial carbon tax?

[Martin Tremblay]

I hope I understood your question correctly, Mr. Baber.

If the cost of electricity is well balanced with fossil fuel consumption, I don't think the cost of electricity would increase.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I'm not sure I understood your answer, but my clear question was—

[Martin Tremblay]

Could you repeat your question?

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Does the industrial carbon tax, generally applied, increase or decrease the price of electricity?

[Martin Tremblay]

As I said, I do not believe that the cost of electricity associated with hydroelectric dam systems will increase.

However, if we have power generation from fossil fuels, as in other provinces, this tax will apply to the use of fossil fuels for electricity generation. I therefore expect the tax to increase the cost of electricity.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

That's, for instance, for natural gas power producers. Is that right?

[Martin Tremblay]

Currently, yes.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

Over the last decade, electricity prices have gone up 35% under the Liberals.

Could you please give us an idea as to why you think that is?

[Martin Tremblay]

I would say that in Quebec, at present, our legacy of hydroelectric dams built in the 1960s and 1970s has always allowed us to have very low electricity costs. Of course, these dams need to be renovated and optimized. I don't think this is a political issue. It's a matter of maintaining our dams.

Of course, all electricity is now produced at a higher cost than it was with our first dams built in James Bay. There has been an adjustment to keep the system efficient in Quebec. I do not believe that political factors have led to an increase in the cost of electricity in Quebec.

[Roman Baber, Conservative, York Centre, ON]

I submit to you respectfully that the industrial carbon tax factors into this. The Liberal government made history in that it's now the first government ever to preside over a Canadian electricity shortfall. In 2024, for the first time on record, Canada could not produce enough electricity for its own.... Instead, we had to import electricity from the United States just to keep the lights on.

Could you please talk about government policy that could contribute to the fact that we now have a shortfall?

[Martin Tremblay]

It is important to understand that this peak in electricity consumption on the grid occurs over a two-hour period. Therefore, this peak does not represent regular electricity usage.

Let me give you an example. In Quebec, we are talking about an average power usage of 22 megawatts during the summer in terms of consumption. We have a production level of 43 megawatts. In winter, we're talking about power usage of about 35 megawatts. I remind you that we have a production level of 43 megawatts. I believe we really need to manage instantaneous power demands in order to free up this power for use.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Tremblay.

We move on to Mr. Saini for five minutes.

[Gurbux Saini, Liberal, Fleetwood—Port Kells, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the witnesses.

On the question that my colleague, Roman Baber, put about importing electricity from the U.S., I thought we were exporting more through Quebec and Ontario. Could you tell me, on a net basis, if we are importers or exporters of energy from the U.S.?