Natural Resources Committee on June 11th, 2026

[Heather Exner-Pirot]

I think they are starting to, but there's much more to be done, and the private sector, government and the utilities have to work in very close coordination to achieve this.

[Jeff Kibble, Conservative, Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, BC]

I'm running out of time, so perhaps you could submit both your report, “Blackout”, and anything else you'd like to add on that subject.

Thank you, Mr. Chair, for your patience.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you, Mr. Kibble. That was a great suggestion.

Ms. McKelvie, you have five minutes.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for Dr. von der Porten.

You spoke about leadership, partnership and ownership, as well as how that is the most effective model to move forward with for clean energy and electrification.

There are programs like the indigenous loan guarantee program, but what other things do you think need to be put in place so that we can really support these endeavours and really help our first nations to be a part of this transition?

[Dr. Suzanne von der Porten]

It's an important question. The biggest thing is around the capacity supports for first nations. First nations are not on a level playing field with the utilities that are approaching them to work on projects in terms of resourcing money and people like geo-engineers and routing experts. They're also not on a level playing field with governments, provincial or otherwise, as well as industry. In all of those cases, first nations who are being approached are really out-competed in terms of resources. It's about resourcing nations in terms of experts, capacity supports, lawyers, consultants and all the things you need to really think about it, as well as resourcing first nations to do comprehensive community planning so that they know what their members want and aren't surprised by projects.

The final thing to think about is setting nations up so that they can take advantage of procurement. For example, a transmission line going in requires very specialized electricians. If nations are to tool up their members to take part in those types of industries, they need lead time to certify, to create that kind of job opportunity and to create indigenous-owned businesses to meet the moment with the correct industry.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Thank you.

I come from a western science world view. That's my background, but incredible indigenous knowledge comes from millennia of living on the land. As site assessment and site identification take place, it's really important to engage in partnerships and to have those discussions on how we can best interweave indigenous knowledge into the decision-making processes. Do you have examples of best practice around this or suggestions on where this is being done really well so that we can learn together and go forward in a good way?

[Dr. Suzanne von der Porten]

Those are good questions. To the first part, best practice is always what that first nation is looking for. You will even have two neighbouring nations that have completely different priorities, protocols and approaches to applying their indigenous knowledge and their understanding of the land and waters around them, as well as how they want to site and route electricity projects.

In the report that I spoke of, we give examples of all the known indigenous-owned transmission lines we have identified in Canada that are either in the works or are done, such as the ones we spoke about—Five Nations Energy, Wataynikaneyap Power and the north coast transmission line. Those are all excellent examples to learn from in terms of how we have done things. We outline each one of those in this report. It's public-facing, and it is digestible. It won't be one of your denser reads. It's meant for any of the lay public to understand.

[Jennifer McKelvie, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

With electricity lines, we have a bit of a benefit in which we can decide on the siting and decide on the routes. With natural resource-based projects, we're more limited, because they're where the deposit is.

In terms of capacity building, coming back to the question, and recognizing that you work with all major projects, do you have suggestions around that industry as well, around mining and more natural resource-based industries, on how we can also work better together on leadership, partnership and ownership on those projects?

[Dr. Suzanne von der Porten]

We have two reports in total, but I will point you to our recent critical minerals report. I would like to submit that as well, if that's of interest. My understanding was that this committee was focused on electricity, but there are really similar suggestions in terms of prioritizing first nations from the earliest possible stages, letting the nation outline the risk and letting the nation outline their amount of equity. As you said, those are very different industries. The risk level to owning a long-term electricity asset and potentially getting into mining can be quite different. The nation needs to be tooled up so that they can make decisions accordingly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Thank you both.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Ms. Exner-Pirot, a Canadian strategy has been tabled. In your opening remarks earlier, you talked about shifting into growth mode. Yes, that has to happen, but the Canadian energy landscape is diverse. Looking at the energy supply in Quebec, it is 40% hydroelectricity. In the rest of Canada, electricity accounts for 17% of the energy supply. So a number of realities have to be taken into account.

I find it hard to believe that there can be a nationwide strategy because these are diverse realities. Since you produce that kind of document, perhaps you could provide a quick overview of the electricity system, perhaps by region. In Quebec, it's hydroelectricity. In Ontario, there is more nuclear energy, but with other energy sources as well.

I think this will be very important strategically. Quebec already has its strategy, which was announced by Hydro-Québec. By 2035, we're looking at $200 billion in expenditures.

If I understand correctly, Quebec needs to focus more on energy efficiency, since there are people back home in Quebec who don't recognize the value of electricity. There are individuals and households who don't know the value of it because it is seen as an abundant resource at an acceptable price. I suppose all of that has to be part of our thinking, but we will certainly not be able to get a Canada-wide strategy.

I'd like to hear your comments on that, in closing.

[Heather Exner-Pirot]

That's a great question. We'll probably be similar in agreeing that electricity is under provincial jurisdiction and the provinces should lead.

The obvious areas for me that this committee and the government should lead in are nuclear and financing. What are the financing tools that all utilities will be able to access? I think hydro and nuclear could benefit from the government's credit rating, and then finalizing what that clean electricity regulations parameter is going to look like in the future....

It has absolutely detracted from investment in Saskatchewan, Alberta and elsewhere, so it's about making sure that there are no federal regulations impeding the individual provinces from doing what they think is best in their jurisdiction.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Okay.

Thank you, Ms. Exner-Pirot.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

Okay. That is our time.

Colleagues, let me thank our witnesses once again on your behalf. There were great exchanges around the table today.

A number of reports were mentioned by our witnesses. We welcome those or any other information you'd like to send along to us.

Finally, thank you, Dr. Exner-Pirot, for that compliment on our report. There was considerable alignment between committee members, no matter their political stripe, and I would argue that there's a fair bit of alignment when it comes to this study as well. We will see in the final product. Maybe you'll have another compliment for us.

[Heather Exner-Pirot]

I hope so.

[The Chair, Liberal, Terry Duguid]

With that, colleagues, we are adjourned.