Official Languages Committee on Nov. 28th, 2006

[Francis Potié]

I have nothing against special projects as such. They make it possible to do many innovative things. However, we do need some basic infrastructure, as Mr. Bélanger said, so that we can invent projects, generate new initiatives and be in touch with emerging needs. Without basic resources, we become far less effective in some respects.

Here is what I have to say about the projects. A project is part of a fiscal year, but in actual fact, in real life, it is rare for a project to get underway on April 1 and to end on March 31. So we carry out a project, and then we have to do some follow-up work. The project produces spin-offs. After a study, a survey or training program, we have to follow-up, and it takes people to do that. In other words, the development process is a series of highs and lows. One year we have three employees, the next we have six, and then all of a sudden we are down to two. It is very difficult to work like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Potié.

We will begin our second round. Each speaker will have five minutes.

I will now give the floor to Mr. Simard.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to our witnesses today.

My first comment is for Mr. Grenier and Mr. Potié. I'll then ask a question.

Our committee mandate is to assess the vitality of francophone communities outside Quebec and to look at the repercussions of the action plan in order to see whether some things should be changed, and whether we should extend the plan, at what cost, and in order to know what recommendations to make to government.

Mr. Grenier, you said that the action plan has had no impact. Based on our information, I can say that it has. Some things have worked very well, for instance in the field of health care. We have received very positive comments in that area. We've seen very positive results in terms of immigration, despite the fact there was not much funding there, with respect to justice, it is going well. As for education, it is too early to assess. Apparently, we do not yet have enough information in order to know whether immersion programs have had a positive effect until now. We have also noted that there have been shortcomings from a cultural and communications standpoint.

Based on the comments we're hearing today, there is indeed real instability in print and other media. If we could include communications and the cultural sector within a new action plan, it would lead to some stability.

Is it obvious? Would you support core funding for communications?

[Réjean Grenier]

That is a good idea, of course. We never refuse money. However, that being said, you're going to have to deal with one problem. There are two types of media in French-speaking regions outside Quebec. There are private newspapers and non-profit organizations. The problem is related to government grants: often, the private sector can't access them. It is not any wealthier than other sectors, precisely because it can't access these grants. It survives only on advertising revenue. The problem has to do with the distribution of that money.

In my opinion, the advertising sector would be fairer for all, throughout the country and would provide the government visibility, namely for the Dion plan, its successes, etc.

[Francis Potié]

We would of course like communications to be included under the action plan, as one of its pillars. We have initiated discussions and established an issue table on communications with the Télévision française de l'Ontario, the Alliance des radios communautaires du Canada and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, the FCFA. Some issues came out of those discussions.

I won't speak on behalf of other stakeholders, but I could add that we know that community radio is concerned, namely, by a radio production fund for community radio.

Earlier on, I mentioned that in terms of francophone print media, there is a support fund called the Canada Magazine Fund. It should be adapted to market reality or to markets within which French-language communities or editors have to work. That is another interesting option.

We know that all francophone communities are interested in having the mandate, distribution and broadcasting of TFO expanded. There is also the issue of the production fund. Measures were taken within Telefilm Canada to set aside an amount for francophone producers and production outside Quebec.

It would be possible to develop a series of initiatives, measures or even to adapt existing programs and this could really give francophone media in Canada a boost and create momentum.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. D'Amours can have the rest of my time.

[Le président, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

You only have 30 seconds left.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Chairman and witnesses, I simply want to give 48 hours notice of a motion. The following motion may be debated at another time:

That the Standing Committee on Official Languages recommends that the government maintains the funding provided by the Canada Post Corporation for the Publication Assistance Program for official language Communities.

I would like to advise the witnesses that members received a copy of this motion, which will be debated at a later date. I think it is very important if we want to be able to help official language minority communities. That is why I am tabling this notice of motion today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

Ms. Boucher may now ask the next question. You have five minutes.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to point out one thing. I know that it will not be the subject of debate right away, but the motion does not say the same thing in English and in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you.

Ms. Boucher, you may start.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning. I am pleased to meet Mr. Potié here, in person, and to have this exchange with people who may be a bit further away, but with whom we can talk.

As you know, I've said it before and I'll say it again, our government provides unshakable support for the francophonie and official languages. It is important for us to work with people in a positive way to find possible solutions in order to enhance the vitality of communities while taking concrete action. We signed agreements; the minister signed agreements. We have an agreement on immigration.

I've been listening to what's been said and I see that the most important thing is the money which goes directly to communities. You have spoken a great deal about that. I'd like your opinion on the matter.

Mr. Potié, how do you see your organization's role in this respect?

[Francis Potié]

As I stated earlier, newspapers benefit from community vitality. For community development organizations, it will have an impact if they have adequate funding for basic infrastructure and funding which allows them to generate a host of new initiatives for community development. I think we've seen it, the positive effect it does have on newspapers. I don't think any newspaper would object to the fact that there could be adequate funding for community development. It is good for the francophone press and vice-versa. The existence of the press is good for community development.

Is that the purpose of your question?

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You also referred to the action plan shortcomings. According to you, what was the most significant shortcoming in the action plan?

[Francis Potié]

I'll say it again, I think we were surprised, because you have to think of the environment we're operating in. We work with satellites. There is no mention of communications; yet, we live an era of communications. You want to enhance the development of minority francophone communities, but you're disregarding the fact that communications play a huge role in our daily lives, from a personal and public standpoint. If you turn a blind eye to that, I think you're missing a big piece of the puzzle.

There's also the issue of informing people, mobilizing them, encouraging them to get involved, encouraging an exchange between the government and the general public as well as between organizations and the general public. Nothing was said as to what would be done through this plan. I think that would be important. Mr. Simard is right: some things were done with these funds, namely in the fields of health care and immigration, but there was no strategy for us to work together to ensure we were on the right same page about issues.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Mr. Bélanger, do you think communications were the biggest shortcoming in the action plan, or is there anything else?

[Pierre Bélanger]

Obviously, communications are one major shortcoming. It is fundamental for community organizations to be able to work in partnership with effective health communications officers.

It is impossible for us to do our work, mainly in the area of fighting assimilation and preserving the identity of our youth, if they can't relate to the media, if we don't have our community newspapers and radio. In that case we face another battle, that we are losing against anglophone media.

The Dion plan set out broad outlines; it strengthened educational institutions, it worked on immigration and contributed to the creation of a northern health network. However, I agree with Mr. Potié that the Dion plan has had no effect on communities, on people working out in the field, in the regions.

I'll give you a concrete example. It has been 15 years now that we, in Timmins, have been working to establish a francophone community health centre. We almost succeeded 10 years ago, but for political reasons, another centre was granted the funding, even though our application was more solid and better structured. We do not control the vagary of politics and program management.

There is a network, but what tangible effect does it have on citizens living in Timmins, who have to receive part of their health care services in English because there is no francophone community health centre? In the field of health care, the Dion plan has had no tangible impact.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Bélanger, I'm sorry, but I'll have to stop you there.

Ms. Brunelle, you may now ask the next question.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen. It is quite an interesting experience to listen to you this morning, mainly Mr. Grenier.

I must admit that I am dumbfounded to see to what extent the sponsorship scandal injected a sense of paranoia within the machinery of government. It is becoming increasingly obvious. You're suffering from this, and so are several organizations in Quebec, mainly festivals, etc. I'm wondering how we will manage this. It is just deplorable to see a political scandal having this effect on people who are acting in good faith to advance their causes.

Mr. Grenier, you said that program criteria were hampering francophone communities. What I've gathered is that we don't really understand what you're going through. Our committee should perhaps get involved in looking at programs in greater detail after we have completed our travels. It would be important to see how we could support communities. Given the shortage of available funds, it is important to use what we have as efficiently as possible.

Mr. Grenier, you said that the Dion plan has had no effect on communities, that it was perhaps more harmful than anything else. If the plan really was ineffective in your case and for your communities, what do you have to suggest? What amendments should be made?

[Réjean Grenier]

Thank you for the question.

I think that the action plan should focus more on communities at the local level, as Mr. Bélanger said earlier. Of course, we have made progress in the area of education. There has been some progress in Ontario, but it did not necessarily happen at the community level.

We mentioned that the ACFO will close its doors and that many people are doing a lot of volunteer work. None of that has changed, on the contrary. The Dion plan is not responsible for this state of affairs. Rather, it is due to the standpattism within government, whereby officials and the people in charge of developing projects try to play the security card, if you will. That is where the problem lies.

In my opinion, the Dion plan contained marvellous initiatives in the area of health care and in other sectors. There have been certain results, but they are limited to major infrastructure projects.

There's also the issue relating to the relevance of local organizations, which Mr. Lemieux alluded to earlier. There's no doubt that these organizations are relevant. If it hadn't been for the ACFO, the Collège Boréal in Sudbury would not exist anymore. However, today, the college is filled with students.

It is obvious, that community organizations lead to these results, with a bit of help from the federal government. And of course, we want that to continue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Ms. Brunelle, you have one minute left.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Potié, as far as funding is concerned, you said that the growing number of issues is making life difficult for you. I would like you to give us a few examples.

[Francis Potié]

I would say that there is no end in sight. This goes back to the Action Plan for Official Languages, and even before that. Under Part VII of the Official Languages Act the government is required to support francophone communities in various areas of activity, such as health, early childhood education, and others. Consequently, as stakeholders, we are called upon to deal with many people. That's fine, we don't want it any other way. I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, but in fact, people call upon us from all sides. That's fine, but if we don't go, the perception is that we are not doing our job. We do not want to give this impression. But we accomplish all this with the same basic infrastructure.

Let me give you the example of the Association de la presse francophone. We receive enough program funding to pay three employees. I have to generate projects for the rest. This is not really how projects should operate, and this is not how I will be able to create the infrastructure for the association which I should create.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

I'm sorry, Mr. Potié, but your time is up. Five minutes is not very long.

[Francis Potié]

So my time is up then?