Official Languages Committee on Dec. 4th, 2006

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have a few questions for Mr. Gagnon. I'm a lawyer as well, and I'm a member of the Committee on Justice and Human Rights. I have a few questions to ask you in order to clarify your recommendations.

In short, you want amendments to be made to the Statistics Act and the Elections Act. You say it's very important to have a lot more names in order to establish lists of jurors and that that could be done only if the act were amended.

Is there another way that would enable us to give you the tools you need to improve your situation here?

[Pierre Gagnon]

What you have before you, Mr. Murphy, is a summary. In the full report, which is available on the Internet, and a copy of which was also sent to the Department of Justice, obvious solutions are proposed at the provincial level. We also ask the provincial government to take steps, to improve its elections act, to provide, for example, that membership in the health system be used so that it can be determined who, among health system beneficiaries, are Francophone, Anglophone or bilingual.

The suggestions submitted in the summary that you have are intended for Parliament, that is to say they concern the federal statutes that may be of some use in this regard. So there's the federal Elections Act, which also refers to the Income Tax Act. When a Canadian taxpayer completes his tax return, he answers the question whether he agrees to share certain information contained in his return with the Chief Electoral Officer. For example, you have to check a box to indicate whether you want to receive your correspondence in English or French. That's one way to achieve our ends. So the Elections Act, combined with taxpayers' annual tax returns, could help.

The second suggestion we've made concerns the Statistics Act. There's a census every five years, if I'm not mistaken. At the time of the census, certain information is gathered. On pages 8 and 9, we cite certain examples in which the Statistics Act permits the communication of information. Often there's a debate as to whether or not the information will be transmitted. The Statistics Act already contains exceptions in this regard, and what we're asking is that there also be an exception to make it possible to identify bilingual citizens and those who are strictly Anglophone or Francophone.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Do I have the time to ask another question, Mr. Chair?

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

You have 15 seconds left.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I'll go quickly, but I'd like a specific answer. The question you suggest asking on page 9 of your presentation would be very useful for you in British Columbia.

Could that be done without amending the Income Tax Act, or could this committee simply make the suggestion to the Department of National Revenue?

[Pierre Gagnon]

Exactly, it's a question that the report created, saying that it was a question that could be put to Canadian taxpayers when they complete their tax returns.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Without amendment.

[Pierre Gagnon]

There would have to be an amendment because, thus far, this question doesn't appear in any of these acts.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

All right, thank you.

[Pierre Gagnon]

I'd simply like to close by saying that, considering the way it's drafted, it doesn't necessarily address the Francophone minorities; it addresses everyone, the Anglophone minorities as well. There are regions in Quebec, for example, that could benefit from this.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you.

Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, everyone.

The discussion this morning is really very interesting, which I very much appreciate, since I'm the parliamentary secretary for official languages. It's crucial for me, the government and this committee that we find potential solutions. I see that you're quite a lively community, and that's very much appreciated. My first question is for Mr. Watters.

You talked about challenges and achievements. I'd like you to tell me the major challenges your community will have to face in the coming years, your greatest achievement and, lastly, the solution you'd like to suggest to the government because you think it's the most important.

[Dr. Jean Watters]

Thank you very much.

As regards current challenges, I'd say that, above all, the challenge for us is to reach the majority of young people. The most recent statistics show that it would be possible for us to reach 20,000. But we're only reaching 4,000 right now. In a minority setting, they say that you learn French and catch English. I don't want to exaggerate this, but the fact remains that many Francophone parents still think that sending their children to an immersion school is better for them, since they learn English there. There is a distinction to be drawn here: French school is for living in French, whereas immersion school is for learning French.

I'm going to respond indirectly to the question asked earlier by Mr. Lemieux, talking about child care centres. Don't forget that 80% of our children come from exogamous families. The common language in the home is thus very often English. We have to be able to offer our young people services in French, but that's a choice that is up to the parents. Whatever the case may be, that choice has to exist, which isn't the case right now with regard to child care centres. We have endless waiting lists. It's essential that these young people be able to live in French at the outset. When French-language services aren't offered, families often have only one choice, and that's to be assimilated. We could cite a number of examples in that regard.

Furthermore, in the context of changing governments, it would be important for official languages that the government continue to support child care programs, capital investment and community spaces.

As for successes, I'd say that the school board's greatest success is undeniably growth. Ms. Bourgeois has been working on this file from the start. We're already exceeding the objective we set in terms of the number of people reached. We're also very satisfied to see that our provincial government has approved our action plan for the next five years and that it has agreed to fund it. That can be explained by the fact that we're a provincial school board that will be undergoing radical change in the next five years. The fact that our action plan is in effect for the next five years is an incredible success for us.

Before turning the floor over to my chairwoman, I want to emphasize capital investment. I beg you: release the necessary funding so that we can stop inheriting the leftovers that the Anglophones don't want any more. Francophones are entitled to an education in French equal to that offered to Anglophones. That's not currently the case.

[Marie Bourgeois]

Thank you, Mr. Watters.

Thank you too, Mr. Godin.

Earlier we talked about the Court Challenges Program. As you probably know, without that program, the Conseil scolaire francophone de Colombie-Britannique wouldn't exist. It's what enabled us to come into existence. The process was a long one. Ms. Friolet, the federation's executive director is one of those who, with myself and other parents, led the struggle. It was mainly Francophone mothers whose husbands were Anglophone. The goal was to gain access to schools that we would control.

We didn't want a Francophone program offered by the Vancouver School Board, but rather a program in French offered by a Francophone school board in British Columbia. Had it not been for the Court Challenges Program, we wouldn't have obtained it. We wouldn't have had the successes of the past 10 years; we wouldn't have been able to innovate as we've done and thus to attract as many students. So keep in mind the essential gist of my message: the Court Challenges Program must be restored.

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Ms. Brunelle.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I don't want this round to end without me congratulating you. Having done a great deal of work, before becoming a member, to protect and ensure the survival of the French language in Quebec, I know how much courage it takes and how very difficult it can be.

Of course, you have to be able to prove that the language is useful. So that must be a major challenge for you. And that's difficult at times to the extent it's not the language used in the work place. We want our language to be useful and for it to be an advantage to possess it.

I was recently told that people of Asian origin show a great deal of interest in learning our language. Perhaps that will help you increase the number of your Francophones.

Ms. Bourgeois, you talked about the first French-language secondary school in Vancouver. Is it a private or public school?

[Marie Bourgeois]

It will be a public school. A secondary program is already being offered in French in Vancouver, but at an Anglophone secondary school. It would obviously be preferable for our students to be in their own space.

Lastly, we've obtained the funding to build or acquire a school. That's what's in preparation right now.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Let's talk about the child care issue. In Quebec, we definitely have a child care system, which is a provincial jurisdiction; we know that. It's very important for us that that continue to develop.

I see that an NDP member recently tabled a bill on child care centres in Canada. Elsewhere in Canada, most people, except the present government, want a pan-Canadian child care system. Consequently, it's a need. I also see that the two ways of doing things are different. However, women and families really need a child care service. I can't help but say that $1,200 a year is a family allowance at most; it's not a child care service.

The educational aspect of child care centres make complete sense and becomes important when you're ensuring Francophone integration. It's very interesting and very stimulating. I simply want to let you take some time to tell us more about that.

In addition, Mr. Watters, perhaps you could conclude on your point.

At the same time, I'd like to tell you that you have the full support of Quebeckers.

[Marie Bourgeois]

I only have one comment to make on the issue of child care centres and preschool programs.

Ms. Friolet and I have previously fought for child care centres and preschool programs. It is essential that preschool aged children be in a Francophone environment. The offer made so far by the government in power, in a province like British Columbia and a region like Vancouver, is frankly not worth much, because the cost of living in this region is the highest in the country. Both parents work. There are very few mothers who stay at home.

I can turn the floor over to Mr. Watters to follow up on that.

[Dr. Jean Watters]

We're about to open a new school in Victoria. The school will open in January, and there's already a waiting list twice as long as what we had anticipated. Don't forget that the school boards in British Columbia, as is the case elsewhere, are declining; whereas we're growing.

In our frequent talks with the province, we request permission to build schools big enough to be able to provide necessary services. For example—our chairwoman knows something about this—the child care at Gabrielle-Roy school was built for 600 students three years ago. Next year, we'll be adding portable classrooms because people don't understand that the Francophone program is actually growing. We have to be given the necessary funding so that we can build. Build it, and they will come!

Let me raise one final point.

I may be straying from the question a little, but I want to add to what Ms. Friolet said earlier about the importance of postsecondary education. Students currently pursuing a postsecondary education attend the Collège Éducacentre, at the college level, and the Bureau des affaires francophones et francophiles of Simon Fraser University. It's very important to continue encouraging these studies. In January, we'll also be offering a doctoral program in which 19 Francophones and Francophiles are registered.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

I'd perhaps like to hear from Ms. Rakotonaivo.

[Michelle Rakotonaivo]

Thank you.

It's just to follow up on Ms. Brunelle's comments. Since the Fédération des parents francophones de la Colombie-Britannique isn't here, we can also speak.

First, with regard to early childhood, we're working together with Quebec, the early childhood centres. The Fédération des parents is working together with the early childhood centres in Quebec and is also sending educators to work there, because we in British Columbia want to introduce a similar system of early childhood centres.

Our challenge is related to human resources. There are equivalence problems and so on. We're currently working together with Manitoba and Quebec's colleges to obtain equivalences so that we can work in the province. To be an educator in British Columbia, you have to hold a British Columbia diploma. A lot of work as part of a partnership is already under way in this area.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Thank you.

The representatives of the Fédération des parents francophones de la Colombie-Britannique will testify between 10:00 a.m. and noon.

I'm going to put a question to the Association franco-yukonnaise. Ms. Théorêt-Poupart mentioned earlier that the association had undergone budget cuts. Did I understand correctly?

[Marianne Théorêt-Poupart]

There haven't been any cuts, but funding from Canadian Heritage hasn't increased since 1999. Funding that doesn't increase is tantamount to cuts because the cost of living continues to rise.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

The Association canadienne française de l'Ontario told us it had the same problem. How does that affect you? In Ontario, for example, the ACFO régionale Supérieur-Nord, in Sault Ste. Marie, and another agency had to close. I think they were receiving funding of approximately $10,500, whereas they needed $50,000 in order to operate. I mention those two examples because there are a lot of ACFOs in Ontario.

How do you view the future of your association? When we were in Sudbury, representatives from the health field, from Collège Boréal, in short, everyone told us the same thing: if it had not been for the Francophone association, nothing would have started up.

An association always consists of the same members. Ms. Bourgeois said she had fought her fight with Ms. Friolet. We Francophones have to help each other because we're a small group. We're not a minority; we're a small group.