Official Languages Committee on June 1st, 2006

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

For example, you can call upon free lance translators in New Brunswick or Manitoba?

[Francine Kennedy]

Exactly. Our repertoire contains the names of free lancers and translation firms from across Canada.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

How do you determine whether a text will be translated by a machine or by a translator?

[Francine Kennedy]

That is not how we use machine translation. When the Translation Bureau receives a document, we do not decide whether it will be translated by a machine or by a translator. We only use machine translation in very specific fields, such as weather reports, where the texts are repetitive and subject to controlled writing, in which drafters must comply with a writing protocol. In these cases, we may use machine translation.

Aside from that, the Translation Bureau does not use machine translation.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Finally, I can say, as Mr. Harvey stated earlier, that we are generally well served and that the translation is very good. There may be delays at times, but I think that depends on what is going on in Ottawa. You should be congratulated on the work you do. It is important to respect both official languages and to make sure documents are revised before they are published.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

Ms. Barbot.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

First of all, I must start by commending you on the services you provide. Everyone agrees that when you are involved in a translation, there really is no problem.

However, I didn't realize that the Bureau was organized in the same way as any other company. You offer services on a cost recovery basis. I would imagine you have to reach a certain percentage. That calls into question the very principle of bilingualism in Canada. Your goal is not to make sure that the services you must provide to the public are accessible to everyone. You have to focus on profitability, which in some way compromises the principle that services should be provided whenever needed. Moreover, if you are a company, your clients also have financial concerns and may well choose to look elsewhere for less costly translation services. We've seen the results of competition and subcontracting in this type of context.

You stated that machines cannot yet replace human translators. Personally, I would say that machines will never be able to replace human translators. It seems to me that in every case, even in the field of artificial intelligence, it is unimaginable that a machine could think and convey cultural, social and intellectual values. That is what human beings can do, unless we become machines ourselves, but I don't think that will happen in our lifetimes.

Nevertheless, you say that controlled writing works, which confirms what the previous witnesses said. The work of an organization such as Service Canada is technical in nature. In that kind of situation, people may well choose to make greater use of controlled writing. The service could be designed so that if an employer has something else to add, this could be done during the interview. In any event, it's unacceptable for the work to be of poor quality. In that case the service provided does not have the desired effect. I was told that they would avoid posting non revised texts. That shouldn't apply to just one language. It is a matter of justice for both official languages. It may slow down the machinery, but an advantage should not be given to anglophones or francophones based on where they live.

Do you agree with me on that?

[Francine Kennedy]

Yes I agree with you that the Official Languages Act clearly states that information must be available to Canadian citizens in both official languages. This morning, I believe my colleagues from Job Bank said that they were working very hard to find a solution to this problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Ms. Brunelle, you have three minutes left.

[Paule Brunelle, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I was elected for the first time in 2004. I have used your services, and I know they are truly exceptional. It must be said that it is thanks to you that French is still spoken on Parliament Hill. But it is also thanks to the needs of francophone members. this is important if we want to maintain jobs.

From the start, we've been told about the exorbitant costs of these services. We must not forget however that there are revenues involved as well because translators pay taxes. When I fill out my federal income tax return, I have access to very well translated forms. Clearly, poor quality machine translations are absolutely intolerable. It is a factor in the assimilation of workers. It reminds me of Christmas time, when you are trying to assemble a toy made in China and the French translation makes no sense and so you turn to the English. So, it is a factor in the assimilation of francophones who are basically considered second-class citizens. These people may be going through a difficult time. These jobs are often not specialized; unilingual applicants would not have access to them. Why not do what parliamentary committees do and refuse to accept or post a document when the translation is not correct?.

I must say, it's rather incomprehensible to me. There are a number of multilingual countries. Just look at the European Union. You say that you are consulting. I support you and would encourage you to continue to seek out information as to their ways of doing things. They must work with a host of cultures and languages. It must be incredibly complicated. They must certainly have a great deal of experience. We simply cannot fail here, when we know how important the matter is.

What differentiates Canada from the United States is our two languages as well as the richness of the French language and culture. That was more of a comment than a question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Would you like to comment? You have 30 seconds.

[Francine Kennedy]

I could not agree more. The fact that this is a bilingual country is a great asset.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Kennedy.

Mr. Godin, you have seven minutes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The committee is not complaining about the translation that is done by our translators. We are complaining about the increasing use of machines, which are unable to translate as well as they can. You described the problem very well.

We Acadians have a certain way of speaking which is hard to translate. You will never find an Acadian machine, because one doesn't exist.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It would be hard to understand.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Ms. Kennedy, it was crushed 400 years ago and does not exist today. I can assure you that we will never find a machine able to translate what we say.

I'll give you an example. I would like our researcher to check something out. On Job Bank, offers are only translated from English into French. The previous witness told us that they are also translated from French into English.

[Jean-Rodrigue Paré, Committee Researcher]

I didn't find any. I searched for an hour. I clicked on all sorts of postings.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I would ask that the previous witnesses give us some evidence that this is being done. Our excellent researcher worked for an hour and could not find anything. I would ask the previous witnesses to give us some proof that advertisements are being translated from French into English so that we can see what it looks like.

In a job offer dated May 23, 2006 which I have brought in, the following appears at the bottom of the page, “This job advertisement has been provided by an external employer. Service Canada is not responsible for the accuracy, authenticity or reliability of the content.” Service Canada is not responsible for what appears in the advertisement, even though Service Canada is responsible for getting everything backwards.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Service Canada does not assume responsibility for this.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Service Canada does not assume responsibility, but it got everything backwards with the poor translation. As translators, you must be embarrassed by this.

[Francine Kennedy]

I will let my colleague respond to your comment.

[Donald Barabé, Vice-President, Translation Bureau, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

As Ms. Kennedy said earlier, we have a great deal of sympathy for our colleagues have to deal with this challenge. As a translator, I feel ambivalent. I do not want machines to replace us, and I do not think this is going to happen, as you said so well a little earlier, Ms. Barbot. At the same time, the demand is so great throughout the world that human translators cannot meet it. Consequently, technology has to help us out at some point. Unfortunately, it is not yet perfect. That is clear. That is why controlled writing is becoming increasingly important.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I want to make the following point. I don't think we are concerned about what is happening in your shop. We have no problem with you using machines, if that helps our translators. The problem lies with the quality of the final product, which causes people to laugh at us.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The problem is the quality.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That is where the problem lies. The whole world says that Canada defends the language of the heart, and then tells us what we have done.

Mr. Chairman, I do not think we are questioning the idea of using machines. What we are questioning is the finished product for public consumption. We can use whatever tools we like when we go into our offices, but when the product is to be used by the public, we don't want such things to happen.