Evidence of meeting #56 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A recording is available from Parliament.
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
I read in the papers, specifically in Le Droit, that a committee member had said that coming back before the committee would not change anything because it was a matter of policy. But it was all right. I spoke to this member and he was just fine.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Was it in fact a committee member for the government?
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
When you talk about $500,000, don't forget that this is for all minorities. It includes the women of Canada, who account for more than 50%. If we just take a third, about $550,000, and we are a million francophones living outside Quebec, that comes to 50¢ per person. But since there are also half a million anglophone Quebeckers, that comes down to about 30¢ per person.
If Canadians—
Liberal
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
—knew that for just 30¢ per person, to uphold our rights... It's a shame, it's a scandal! It doesn't make any sense. It's disgusting, pardon the expression, but there you have it. There is no other way to describe it.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
So you're saying it's about 30¢ for francophones and 20¢ for Quebec anglophones.
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
No. It's 50¢ for francophones only—
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
—but since we include Quebec anglophones in our group, since they are in a minority situation like us, it comes down to about 30¢ per person. Does that make any sense?
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
If I understand correctly, it means that the cancellation of the Court Challenges Program by the Conservatives trampled on the rights of francophones outside Quebec and anglophones in Quebec.
former President of SOS Montfort, As an Individual
Yes, for peanuts. It's ridiculous! It's the price of a tank without air conditioning like we have just bought from the Netherlands.
Liberal
Communications Consultant, Montfort Hospital
I'm trying to understand the political logic underlying this decision, but I don't see it. I worked on Parliament Hill for 15 years, as many of you know, and I know the system and how decisions are taken. The fact is that Quebec unanimously supported Montfort and it seems to me that it is also unanimously supporting this program, because we need to protect French everywhere in Canada.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.
We will now continue with a representative from the Bloc Québécois, Mr. Nadeau.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
We talked about the different areas in which the Court Challenges Program has been used. I have an education background. I have had the pleasure of teaching in three different Canadian provinces. I have taught mostly in minority communities in Saskatchewan and Ontario. I am very proud to say that the last school I taught at was the École Gisèle-Lalonde.
That being said, I would like Mr. Matte and Mr. Gratton to describe to what extent the Court Challenges Program has helped eradicate the decades-old and flagrant injustice that has prevailed in certain provinces, and how the program has allowed for the emergence of French-speaking schools. How important is the program for French-speaking minorities in the education system?
President, Court Challenges Program of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.
I think it is fair to say that since 1982, when the first education case was brought before the Ontario Court of Appeal under section 23, there have been other cases, including the Mahé case. Had the Court Challenges Program not existed, today we would still be fighting, as francophones, to start schools, or to have French-language schools in areas where there were mixed schools and no French-language school boards. We would be fighting not only for the right to manage the system, but to have the schools.
In some provinces, there probably wouldn't be any system at all, such as in the province represented by Mr. Chong, British Columbia. Had there been no court ruling on this matter, there would be no French-language school board, which is continuing to develop each year. In fact, it is one of the provincial school boards that is developing the most quickly. None of these programs would have existed. Now I can say this. I believe that all those who have been involved in language cases would also agree with me in this regard.
Vice-President of the Board of Directors, Court Challenges Program of Canada
May I add something?
Mr. Nadeau, francophone schools in Prince Edward Island, Nova Scotia and Alberta invited the Court Challenges Program committee to meet with them. We were given an invitation from parents whose children are enrolled at Sainte-Marguerite Bourgeoys School, to visit the facilities and see the results for ourselves. We also visited a school in Nova Scotia and met with a parent who was crying while explaining that had the Court Challenges Program not existed, this school wouldn't be there. I believe it is the parents and those benefiting who are most aware of this.
Communications Consultant, Montfort Hospital
The case which opened the floodgates to recognizing the increasing scope of minority francophone rights was the Mahé case, which dates back to 1990. It was during this case that the major principles were established, principles that would guide future cases. This case was launched by Franco-Albertans; this should not be forgotten. That community could not afford to pay for lawyers.
Mr. Chong said that this is a matter of clarifying rights. Very well, but who wants these clarifications to be made? It is the groups who are affected. The government signaled its intention to clarify certain rights by creating a program, but it is not taking any action to clarify the rights. It is doing exactly the opposite. The government is saying that it is not seeking clarification, and it would not give access to groups who seek this.
The program is geared to all of Canadian society. Yes, it does target certain specific groups. As Ms. Lalonde was saying, this program is there for women and any other group whose members may be victims of discrimination. There is no political logic to this decision; there seems to be no logic at all. It appears to be a purely ideological decision.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Mr. Chairman, I have one last question.
The reinstatement of the Court Challenges Program will not just benefit francophones outside Quebec. This program is being called for by Canadians across the country. Is this not correct?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
That ends your comments. Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.
We now move to Mr. Luc Harvey.
Conservative
Luc Harvey Conservative Louis-Hébert, QC
Mr. Matte, as a member of Parliament, I meet with all groups that have wished to speak to me. I also meet with individuals. However, as an elected official, I could not meet with the Hells Angels, or take part in a public demonstration waving a flag of Hezbollah. In meeting with groups, when we are fully aware that our actions will be followed by the media, and there are problems in a committee, we have to be careful.