It was in 1992.
Evidence of meeting #60 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #60 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cases.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:10 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
It was in 1992.
10:10 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It is not my intention to pick on Mr. Chong here this morning, but he was saying that in his opinion, the point of the program was to clarify legislation and to make sure there were legal precedents and that now, there should be enough of them.
Do you think that Mr. Mulroney, the former Conservative Prime Minister, believed that there were enough legal precedents in 1992 to abolish this program? From 1992 to 2006 were any new cases brought forward? Mr. Doucet, you said that the Constitution is a living thing. We experience it every day and things change. Was the program useful and did it serve to clarify the law, especially since S-3, the new bill, was adopted? We will be facing the challenge of referring to it. Isn't the government, that good citizen, violating the law? Does Bill S-3 solve all our problems? Do we still need to go before the courts? If not, will the communities have to test the legislation to know whether the government is compliant within its institutions? It has a responsibility to set in place mechanisms to serve people in both official languages.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
Since the reinstatement of the program, the most important decisions on language matters that come to mind are the following: Beaulac, Arsenault-Cameron, Solsky, Boudreau-Doucet, Charlebois, Montfort and Donnie Doucet.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
It would seem not. The number of pages filled and the time dedicated to bringing these files before the Supreme Court showed that we clearly needed these rulings.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
—we would only have the precedents that pre-dated the program.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Mr. Doucet, you're one of the lawyers who won several cases. Did you become a millionaire? The government has said that this program served only to enrich Liberal Party lawyers.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
Mr. Murphy would certainly like to hear that, because I sued him. I'd really like to be a millionaire, but that's not the case. As I said earlier, these cases are very expensive.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
What is the situation really like out there in the field? You are a lawyer and you have won cases for minorities. What is it really like in the field? In the House of Commons, the government claimed that some lawyers became millionaires because of this program. They were talking about people like you; they weren't talking about the teams of lawyers from the Department of Justice.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
I admit that well-established law firms often have a great deal of difficulty dealing with cases funded by the Court Challenges Program, because of the rates they charge.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Minister Baird said in the House of Commons that this was nothing but a program to enrich lawyers in the provinces. But in fact that is not at all the case.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
I don't know a single lawyer who became a millionaire because of the Court Challenges Program.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Therefore the program truly helps minorities, people and the community. It doesn't help individuals, as is the case with legal aid. There is a difference between the two.
10:15 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
It depends on the type of Charter rights involved, whether individual rights collective rights. When you open a school in Summerside, Prince Edward Island, it is not just for Ms. Arsenault-Cameron. The whole community benefits.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Mr. Chong talked about legal aid at every meeting. That's his right. Could you elaborate a bit on the subject of legal aid? The government is saying that people used it.
They use it for legal aid, which is not really legal aid as we know it in the province. There's a difference between the two.
10:15 a.m.
Representative, Canadian Bar Association
The common thread with legal aid, as a government program--which the federal government does contribute to, by the way, even though it's within provincial jurisdiction for the most part--and the court challenges program is that they both facilitate access to justice. So in that sense, they are common.
But the court challenges program is focused on test cases. It's focused on developing the law on issues that have not been before the courts, whereas legal aid is your everyday case--it's ensuring that the law is meaningful to individuals.
10:15 a.m.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It's like the RCMP not respecting the official languages in New Brunswick--the big difference with the other one, maybe.
10:15 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, Mr. Godin.
We've just completed our second round of questions. We'll go on to the third round, with the same formula, that is five minutes for questions, comments and answers.
Mr. Jean-Claude D'Amours, you have the floor.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I hear murmurings, as if people were happy that I was speaking. I wish to thank you very much for being here.
Ms. Aucoin, could you tell me how many students attend the francophone high school in Moncton?
10:20 a.m.
President, Fédération des associations de juristes d'expression française de Common Law inc
There are about 900 students enrolled.
10:20 a.m.
Liberal
Jean-Claude D'Amours Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB
Ms. Aucoin, when you received the sum of $5,000, did you know that represented about 1% of the Court Challenges Program for the defence of language rights? I think there are people who should realize that this is to defend the rights of young people, of children. As a mother, you understand, it only cost $5.55 per child to defend their rights which is really not very much. As I often say, that's peanuts.
Mr. Doucet, you will be going before the Supreme Court soon regarding the Court Challenges Program. Do you think that the government will send its lawyers to try to tear apart the arguments that may be presented?
10:20 a.m.
Professor , Expert in language rights, Law Faculty, University of Moncton
Of course, the government is represented by its lawyers.