Official Languages Committee on June 22nd, 2006

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Good morning, and thank you for being with us today.

I'm from the Montreal area, but many members of my family live in the regions. I am aware of their tremendous frustration and their sense that they don't even exist and they're not recognized.

As regards funding, I see that 31 per cent of the Corporations's expenditures--some $533 million--is for French television and radio. As well, some $121 million is spent on specialty channels.

Can you tell me what proportion of that is spent in Quebec, and what proportion, outside of Quebec?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

We provided some figures earlier, but it is difficult to give you exact proportions, since we do not have one budget for Quebec and another budget for the other provinces. We have a single budget, which is distributed by province, and then, by station.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

And stations outside Quebec must feel...

[Sylvain Lafrance]

On the television side, 60 per cent of all regional spending occurs outside Quebec.

[Louis Lalande]

And that does not include investments by RDI, which has invested almost $6 million in the regions. So, if you add that 60 per cent to the RDI portion--since we are required to account for RDI separately--you arrive at quite a considerable sum of money.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

It's important to realize that there is more money spent outside of Quebec because the majority of stations, both television and radio, are located outside Quebec. That is the case for most of our Espace Musique transmitters. This summer, 70 per cent of musical productions will be carried out in the regions--in other words, outside of Montreal, but not outside of Quebec. That means significant investments, because we have stations in a number of large cities outside Quebec. That's the reason why 60 per cent of regional television spending occurs outside Quebec.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Of course, it's much easier, as far as radio goes, to extend services across the country. With television, it's a little more complicated. How do you intend to get around that problem?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

I was saying earlier that in recent years, we have quadrupled the number of productions. We currently have a drama in production in New Brunswick. We also have a film in production in Winnipeg. However, it's important to understand that even there, we are faced with one unavoidable reality. If I'm not mistaken, of the 140 francophone production houses in Canada, 130 are located in Montreal. That is the demographic reality we're facing.

Having said that, the proof that we are making a considerable effort in that regard is the fact that over the last five years, we have increased our annual budget of $300,000 to more than $2 million. We have greatly increased production with independent producers outside Quebec. In radio, we have added resources in certain areas, even though the perception is that we have taken some away. We have opened regional offices, particularly in Prince Edward Island.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

The fact remains that as far as television goes, it is still woefully inadequate.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

Television broadcasting is extremely costly.

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

Mr. Petit raised an issue that has been with us for ages now, namely that information and editorials are always biased, that Radio-Canada is never on the right side, and that you're never in people's good books. It would seem that Mr. Petit has one perception and I have quite another. There are many different perceptions out there. You have to choose your editorial themes, and you convey messages in what you carry. There is no denying that. When you have a message, that message is not universal.

What criteria and parameters do you base you editorial choices on?

[Sylvain Lafrance]

First of all, we do not have an editorial position. We develop contents...

[Carole Freeman, Bloc, Châteauguay—Saint-Constant, QC]

But you provide coverage abroad.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

Radio-Canada's Journalistic Standards and Practices Guide clearly defines the roles and duties of journalists and what is expected of them in terms of objectivity, and so on. There are many parameters. That guide is like an internal bible, and any journalist starting to work for Radio-Canada is made aware of its existence and required to be familiar with our way of operating.

Because of the many tools available to it, among journalistic operations generally, Radio-Canada enjoys a strong reputation for objectivity. There is the Journalistic Standards and Practices Guide, as well as the News Branch, which ensures that the standards and practices are adhered to. As well, there is the ombudsman, which acts as kind of an appeal body. When an individual feels that he has been prejudicially affected, that we were not objective and did not express the whole spectrum of opinion, that person can appeal to the ombudsman. L'ombudsman is independent and reports directly to the Corporation's Board of Directors. He doesn't report to anyone else--not to me, or Louis, or Christiane.

When there are more important moments in the life of a democracy where the issues are pretty significant for everyone--an election, for example--we strike committees of citizens chosen from across the country, and they listen to our newscasts and express their opinions in that regard. They may tell us that we're slipping as regards this or that aspect of our news coverage. And outside firms can also give us their perspective.

We then make very precise calculations of the airtime given to each of the parties. That does not necessarily mean that every party has to have the same airtime, but that we have to be in a position to explain the difference. For example, we may spend less time talking about a particular party in a particular region simply because there are no candidates running there.

All of these tools allow us to state that, overall, journalistic objectivity is taken very seriously at Radio-Canada.

I have been working for Radio-Canada for 26 years, and there have been very serious attacks on its objectivity. Yet every time an impartial study has been conducted, it has confirmed Radio-Canada's objectivity.

What is objectivity? We could hold a three-day seminar on that topic alone.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Godin, you have five minutes.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

My question is directed to either Mr. Lalande or Mr. Lafrance; you spoke earlier of your new system, under which RDI in the Atlantic region will be no more, and news will henceforth be covered on the national network. You will have the burden of proving that this change is for the better. Rather than being your ombudsman, we will be your watchdog.

You said today that you can better represent the regions. You believe that we're in an age of instant news. We'll see how things evolve. Will we have enough airtime?

As I understand it, we will be able to get everything on the national news, because someone will be on the ground. With all due respect, I would point out that our reporters were on the ground, had the news, and would send their items to Radio-Canada national network, even though they were not considered to constitute national news. What is national is the Quebec health care system, hospitals in Quebec, or anything that is going on in Montreal. But national news is supposed to be national news. I'll say it again: outside of Montreal, we want to see ourselves reflected in what Radio-Canada reports. Radio-Canada is Radio-CANADA.

[Louis Lalande]

Mr. Godin, we have taken concrete measures in that regard. Since January, we have had a manager of special assignments who is from the regions. This is an individual who has worked in Western Canada, who is very sympathetic to regional needs, and who knows the country's demographics. This person plays a critical role in decision-making and in monitoring everything that goes on in the newsroom.

That is a very concrete step that we have taken because, to be perfectly honest with you, we are not crazy. We know our people and we know that it's difficult to share that reality with thousands of employees and with people who have to make decisions on a daily basis. We have to support them on a continuous basis, monitor their activity and ensure that we have the appropriate presence. And this approach is yielding results.

For example, according to figures for 2005 and 2006, there has been an increase. Obviously, things will never be perfect, but there has been an increase. Furthermore, we have seen more people. We have seen Ricky Landry more often than last year on Le téléjournal. We also see him more often in the mornings, on RDI. That is important for us. The subjects addressed are also important.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I'm not talking about RDI. I'm talking about Bernard Derome's program. And what about programs such as Tout le monde en parle with Guy A. Lepage or La part des choses. Who are we seeing there?

You have had guests such as Wilfred LeBouthillier and Jean-François Breau. You've also had Jack Layton on, but I think that's about it.

[Louis Lalande]

To be honest, there are more than that. Having said that, you are right to point out that we must make a special effort.

We have talked a great deal about news, but we can also talk about culture with Christiane. Ours is not an exact science; it's not easy. Objectivity is a complex matter. Reflecting the regions is also quite complex in Canada. If there were a simple solution, somebody would already have found it. However, I am aware of our responsibilities in that regard and we do not take them lightly.

For instance, in terms of producing symphony orchestras in Canada or encouraging this or that music festival or new singers--you referred to Wilfred--our crews have difficult choices to make. We were saying earlier that this summer, 70 per cent of the concerts we'll record will be from outside Montreal. That means that we very much want to cover not only cultural events but news all across the country.

Earlier, we were saying that there are a thousand people involved. Radio-Canada is a network of human beings, where people talk, get together and agree on something, and so on. But our field is not an exact science; it's a complex science. We need to ascertain what the most important event is in Canada at a given time. So, that is quite complex, and in journalism, it gives rise to many internal debates. For example, as we speak, journalists with Le Point are debating what is going to be covered this evening.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They will most certainly cover our meeting this afternoon.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

I hope so.

We are not dealing with simple problems. However, I do want to say that both I and my colleagues are aware of our responsibility, which is to reflect the country as a whole. We need to find a happy medium. We will never be able to satisfy everyone, since we will never succeed in providing a perfect reflection of what is going on in all the regions--because there are a lot of them--but we are working very hard in that respect and, in our opinion, we get better every year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Lafrance.

Unfortunately, Mr. Godin, your time is up.

We are now going to begin a third five-minute round of questioning.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to welcome our guests. We were very anxious to hear from you, Mr. Lafrance, as well as from the other members of your entourage. We have heard good things about you. We've been told that you're sympathetic to regional concerns. I'm really anxious to invite you back in a year from now, to see whether we were right to say that.

In Western Canada, one often has the feeling that regional programming is provided out of a sense of obligation, but is not an integral part of your national strategy. Mr. Lalande, I hope you will make this part of your national strategy, so that we don't feel we are being set apart. Take CKSB in Manitoba, for example. Between 6 and 9 a.m., there is regional programming, and after that, there is programming from Quebec, and we go back to regional programming at noon; however, it's not the same people and the ones that were there before don't come back. We would like you to show some sensitivity to that sort of thing.

Furthermore, there are some 2.6 million francophones and francophiles living outside Quebec. They constitute a potentially important audience. Mr. Lalande, I hope you are going to develop a strategy, that you will come and see us, and that you will not base your strategy only on Quebec.

Also, there are some 400,000 young people in our immersion programs. Do be sure to talk to them as well, and to fully integrate them. One third of the students who receive their diploma from St. Boniface University College are from immersion schools. That is definitely a potential market for you. I hope that you will bear that in mind as well. You can respond on that, if you'd like.

I would like to come back to Ms. Boucher's question. In my opinion, she very correctly identified one of the current problems. You are responsible for ensuring that Quebec and francophones outside Quebec are connected. That is the missing link.

I was really surprised, some two years ago, when one of my colleagues from the Bloc Québécois came to our area. He was thrilled to see such a dynamic community in Manitoba. If our colleagues at the House of Commons don't know what's going on, there is clearly a problem.

You talked about artists and production houses, the majority of which are in Quebec. Since we represent only 4 or 5 per cent of the population, we need your support. Rivard Productions Inc. back home is doing extraordinary work and developing products of the same fine quality as production houses in Quebec, because they've been given a chance. We could have two, three or even more such production companies. What I mean is that we require even more support from you. Radio-Canada has a role to play in that regard.

[Sylvain Lafrance]

I travel a lot in the regions. Every year, I make the rounds and talk to people. I've been all across the West, including to St. Boniface. Indeed, René Fontaine, our new Director of French Services in Western Canada, was to be with us today. We have consolidated everything there as well. He cannot be with us today because he is signing agreements with the Europeans. The Western regions are now able to sign agreements with regions in France, Belgium, and Switzerland. There are some interesting things going on there. But it comes back to the same thing, again.

I believe we have a role to play in terms of connecting francophones. I talked about the connection between francophones across Canada, but also between francophones here in Canada and the rest of the world. It is great for people from Winnipeg to be able to sign agreements with certain regions of France. That leads to emulation and communication between people from different backgrounds. We also do this with Moncton, and it works very well.

I'm very sympathetic to what you said about the needs of francophone communities, particularly in the West. They are quite fragile. When in the midst of these communities, you really feel as though you're in a China shop. There are very few production companies, and if we don't help them, they won't be able to hang in there. It's the same in the musical field. When you visit these communities, you become acutely aware of that.

I believe that a consolidation of francophone services out West within Radio-Canada will be beneficial, because this will also allow us to develop a strategy and will give francophones in the Prairies an opportunity to talk to one another from time to time. We're very aware of that need.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Mr. Lalande, can you answer my question about young people in immersion?