Evidence of meeting #10 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was action.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bruce Manion  Assistant Deputy Minister, Planning and Corporate Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage
Hubert Lussier  Director General, Official Languages Support Programs, Department of Canadian Heritage
Jérôme Moisan  Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

At the outset, I have two or three brief comments to make. The number of francophones also went up in Quebec. The increase may not have been proportional, but in absolute figures, their numbers also increased in Quebec.

I am specifically addressing my friends from the Bloc Québécois and Mr. Nadeau because Mr. Gravel is not present. We can be friends and get along well even though we do not belong to the same party.

Regarding the latest published study that refers to the language spoken at home, I would advise you to be very careful with this, because if we go by this study, I myself am not a francophone. Notwithstanding my great love for French and notwithstanding the fact that my father always insisted on my speaking French outside the home, we grew up speaking Spanish at home. Thus, I am totally excluded from this study.

I hope that we will pay close attention to these things because they can seriously divide a society.

Mr. Lussier, earlier you referred to the fact that more money was allocated to francophones. Do we have any percentages?

10:05 a.m.

Director General, Official Languages Support Programs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Hubert Lussier

Yes, the percentages are published in the annual reports. The percentage spent by each province on the Development of Official Languages Communities program, would give us an approximate idea. In fact, by definition, whatever is spent in Quebec for developing the minority community goes to the anglophones. Conversely, everything spent outside Quebec goes to the francophones. You can consult, in the annual reports, the tables that explain the provincial figures, and you will see a distribution more or less like this one.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

You do not know them by heart.

10:05 a.m.

Director General, Official Languages Support Programs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Hubert Lussier

I will have to consult my notes.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

You could do this shortly and come back to us.

10:05 a.m.

Director General, Official Languages Support Programs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Hubert Lussier

If you want, I will be glad to answer you in writing.

10:05 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

All right, or else you can give me some idea before the end of the meeting. I do not want you to lose precious time.

In your opinion, was there anything that did not really work during the first phase, or that we should not repeat or that we should simply eliminate?

10:05 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Planning and Corporate Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Bruce Manion

We are reviewing the evaluations. We do not see anything at first glance, but programs can always be improved and adjusted. As far as I am concerned, I do not see anything at first glance. No.

10:10 a.m.

Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jérôme Moisan

Sir, with your permission, I would say that in all our discussions with the communities, there is never any question of cutting anything but rather...

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Of adding things.

10:10 a.m.

Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jérôme Moisan

...of adding things. As people always say, it worked well, but it could work even better, so let us add some more things.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

With more money and more...

10:10 a.m.

Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jérôme Moisan

That is what I mean.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

This brings me to another question. Do we have any idea yet of what could be included or added? For instance, we heard several times that the cultural part was not included and that no money was set aside for that. Can we presume that there will be something reserved for that?

10:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Planning and Corporate Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Bruce Manion

We heard the same at every consultation. It was repeated again last week when we did our synthesis. Therefore, it will be on our radar screen. We are envisaging various possible ways to intervene in that area. Of course, we singled out the aspect that is of interest to the representatives and main stakeholders as a whole.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

At this time, no idea has been formulated, there is no general idea...

10:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Planning and Corporate Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Bruce Manion

It would be premature.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

It would be a first. We have no right to... be polite, say it.

When will the next consultations take place? You mentioned the spring, but have you any more specific dates?

10:10 a.m.

Senior Director, Official Languages Secretariat, Department of Canadian Heritage

Jérôme Moisan

We have not yet set a date for our regular spring meeting. I presume that we will be having our yearly consultation with public servants in April, but we have not set a date so far.

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Pablo Rodriguez Liberal Honoré-Mercier, QC

Will there be any further consultations before proceeding with the second stage, or is it finished? Have we reached the stage of drafting and establishing budget priorities?

10:10 a.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Planning and Corporate Affairs, Department of Canadian Heritage

Bruce Manion

We can always try to validate certain thoughts and ideas of ours. That can be done. Of course, since many elements of the action plan are provided by other levels of government, there will have to be a final consultation on projects and programs. We are not saying no, nothing specific is being envisaged at this time.

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much, Mr. Rodriguez. I would have liked to have told you in Spanish to stay tuned for further developments on the cultural plane.

I will give the floor to the representatives of the Bloc. Mr. Nadeau.

10:10 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

There are many things and many situations that I find somewhat bewildering but in some cases, as a colleague of mine said, when it hurts, it tears away at my insides. You can imagine the pain.

We are talking about reviving linguistic duality in the federal public service, as if it had already been alive and as if it was being born again. We're also talking about improving the bilingual capacity of the public service. We know that French-speaking citizens should be able to get service in French from the Canadian state apparatus. We know the theory, but there are some practical problems.

I noted that funds had been allocated to that end and I will give you a few examples.

At the Canada post office in Saskatoon—it was the only one and it was near the municipal library—, there was a little blue sign that said: On vous sert en français, or it would say in red letters: “We serve in English”. During six years, each time I went there, the clerk looked at me with a discouraged expression. I'd say to him: Je veux des timbres. He would open his little drawer, take out his card, show me that the word timbres was written on it and he would say “Oh, stamps, how many?” I would answer as I pointed with my finger: J'en veux dix. “Oh, ten”, he would reply.

This went on for six years. This post office was pretending that it offered a service in both official languages. Perhaps there was a lack of goodwill, and perhaps this person should have been replaced. After all, at the post office, we do not want to spend too long waiting.

I have another example for you from Air Canada. You must have heard about this. In Le Droit, there was an article about Mr. Jean Léger, an Acadian who is fed up, and who missed his plane because he insisted on being served in French. Some might say that Air Canada is a subcontractor of the state. I am sorry, but this company receives federal funds.

Another, very sad example, has to do with Justin Bell from Gravelbourg. I got to know his parents because they were fighting to open the Beauséjour school in Gravelbourg. Justin Bell attended this French school, where French was taught as a first language. The parents went so far as to mortgage their home so that teachers could be hired. Then came school governance. After 64 years without a French school, they finally got one. They sent their child there. Today he is 25 years old and a teacher in Saskatchewan. He is a charming young gentleman. He got a ticket from the RCMP and asked to be served in French. They answered him in German, which was just adding insult to injury. All the events I mentioned happened in 2007.

Do you remember the 1988 Mercure decision which gave rise to the signing of the very first agreement between Canada and the communities? Mr. Lussier, you know that very well.

I have nothing against virtue, but I rather like the idea of preaching by example. However, the federal government, even within its own organizations... And do not try to tell me that the RCMP does not answer to some department, or, with regard to Canada Post, that this company is an agency or a crown corporation.

How do you evaluate the progress made with the action plan for citizens who want services in French? We saw the same thing happen here at the municipal level, in Ottawa, Canada's capital, a capital that is not bilingual. A person wanted to be served in French by an Ottawa police officer, but I think that it all ended up at the police station and that it had nothing to do with getting services in French.

By what measure can we say that progress is being made? Justin Bell turned to the Court Challenges Program. I know that this is not your responsibility. It will be voted on sooner or later. This program was abolished by the government. I am not pointing an accusing finger. However, he cannot even go to court to challenge the government, namely the RCMP, after having requested services in French. What kind of message are we sending to this young person? Does it mean that after having studied in French, we have no right to be served in French in our society? I do not want to reprehend you. However, it makes me feel worried and torn up inside.

Earlier, I spoke of schools and education. In Saskatchewan, only 10% of those who are eligible attend schools where French is the first language. Ninety per cent do not go there. Will you tell the school boards that this is under provincial jurisdiction?

That being said, to what extent are things improving for francophones outside Quebec, for the francophone communities in Saskatchewan and Acadia and for those, of which I am one, who want to obtain services in French?

I would like to hear what you have to say.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

We listened to you carefully during your turn, Mr. Nadeau.

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Okay, we will have time to see each other again.