Official Languages Committee on Jan. 29th, 2008

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

You have no questions to ask?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You heard my last question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will now go to the government side, to Mr. Harvey.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Earlier, one of my colleagues in the Liberal Party asked if there had been any problems. I would like to know whether any of the parts of the program that came under the former plan were difficult to implement. Did some of the points take more time than expected? Have these problems been noted so as to avoid any delay in implementing the new part of the new plan?

[Jérôme Moisan]

I can talk about francophone immigration, which was a new item at the time the action plan was introduced. We talked about it, but a great deal of analytical work had to be done. We had to start by deciding what we could do and what we should do. We did a great deal of intensive work with the communities to establish the priorities, decide where to invest the funds, and so on. That is one example of the new situation, and some communities said that we did not act quickly enough. Immigration was quite a new area and required that different things be done according to the location—Moncton, Saint-Boniface, St. John's, Newfoundland. I would say that relatively modest funding was used in this area and the progress over the first years was also rather modest. At the moment, our strategy on francophone immigration is working very well. This was a new area for us, and francophone immigration, and immigration generally is quite a complex field. What are the special needs facing francophone immigrants when they come to a community where French is not the majority language? What should be done? How should we go about establishing the necessary resources? This is an area where a considerable amount of work and discussion with the communities was required before we could really take any action.

That is what comes to mind in answer to your question.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Have you identified a number of challenges that have not yet been met? This is somewhat similar to the question that was asked before: Are there still some challenges? Of course we're talking about a declining number of people whose mother tongue is French, but this may also be a birth rate problem.

Have any problems and challenges been identified, and, more particularly, have any solutions been found?

[Bruce Manion]

Yes, there are a number of them. Of course, there is the issue regarding young people and language retention, the fact that young people are leaving the communities, particularly in rural areas, to go to urban centres or to parts of the country where the economy is strong, but where there is not necessarily much support for linguistic minorities, and the loss of economic drivers in small minority francophone and anglophone communities. Other issues include connectivity, cultural matters, and so on. There is quite a long list, and we update it based on our consultations.

I do not know whether my colleagues would like to add something. Perhaps Hubert would like to?

[Hubert Lussier]

It is true that there still are some challenges in education. Earlier, we were talking about the fact that we are still having trouble recruiting all the rights holders, that is the students whose parents are entitled to enrol them in the minority language school. The challenge is greater in certain areas. A great deal of work remains to be done at the post-secondary level. And we would like to be able to offer more varied programs in colleges and universities. We're talking about education in French here, because the post-secondary system in English in Quebec is very good. As regards French-speakers outside Quebec, there will soon be a major problem regarding teacher training at the college level, in professional and trade courses and at the university level for teaching the second language and for minority schools. The action plan did assign resources to these areas, but they remain a challenge.

To add to what my colleague said in response to your first question, there was some delay initially in setting up education support mechanisms through the provinces. This happened at the beginning of the action plan. That does not mean that the money was not spent where it was supposed to be spent and during the years that it was supposed to be spent, but there were a few years during which negotiations were underway with the Council of Ministers of Education (Canada), the CMEC. This resulted in some delay in targeting priorities properly.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lussier.

We will now complete our third round with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

The Lord Commission is supposed to be tabling its report by the end of January. It is now January 29. Will the report be tabled this week? Will it be made public?

[Bruce Manion]

We are expecting a report from Mr. Lord at the beginning of February. It will be up to the government to decide whether or not it will be made public. At the moment, a discussion between Mr. Lord and Minister Verner is planned for this week or the beginning of next week, and this will be followed by an official report in the weeks following.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you know whether the action plan will be implemented at the end of March, at the beginning of April, at the beginning of May or at the beginning of June?

[Bruce Manion]

It is difficult to predict the timing.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Will it be implemented in 2008 or in 2009? Will there be funding provided for it in the budget?

[Bruce Manion]

We are acting as quickly as possible. Tremendous efforts are being made at the moment to complete our consideration, summarize all the contributions and to take the economic context into account as well as the government's resources. We are quite familiar with the current economic context. All the recommendations we make must take the economic context into account.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The economic context is very good at the moment. The government has announced a $14-billion tax cut for big corporations. So I think things are going very well here in Ottawa. The government brought forward a mini-budget in 2007.

There's talk about putting money into the community. There's also talk about the public service and all the difficulties it faces. There was a move from the Privy Council to a department. But I see no change in concrete terms. Is there a lack of political will? I do not understand when I hear that the department is being pushed and that it is starting to understand. People only understand once we tell them that this is the law, and they have to comply with it.

The government introduced a program to pay people $1,500 if they buy a hybrid vehicle. In Alberta, anglophones who call in to take advantage of this program get served immediately, but francophones have to wait to get service in their language. It takes so long that they decide to switch over to English. And this is a new program: it looks like the government has not learned its lesson.

Services are better in more anglophone provinces. And then people ask whether there is a new generation of francophones. Come on! It all depends on the services available. Could it be that there is a complete lack of political will to show respect for the two official languages of this country?

We can have whatever action plan we like and whatever figures we like and spend billions of dollars, but if there is no political will on the part of this government, which, I would say respectfully, is still appointing unilingual deputy ministers, we cannot help but conclude that this government is simply carrying on the same way as the previous government.

[Bruce Manion]

My ability to comment on this is very limited.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

We could hold an in camera meeting. Then you could tell us what you think. That might be helpful to us.

[Bruce Manion]

I am under tremendous pressure to complete the discussions and the work in order to get phase two of the action plan underway. As regards political will, I can tell you that I have orders to follow, and I am doing so. A huge amount of time has been devoted to the issue, and I am not referring just to our department, but also to the other departments involved. The Committee of Assistant Deputy Ministers on Official Languages is looking into this matter.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It also depends on economic considerations. Are plans being made to cut the budget for the official languages yet again?

[Bruce Manion]

Any programming must be implemented within the context of the government's priorities and budget capacity. That is simply how the system works.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So you are saying that we pass laws, and they are followed provided the economic conditions allow us to do so? Let's say I am stopped by a police officer and I tell him I cannot pay my fine because I have no money. Let's be serious, we're talking about the law.

[Bruce Manion]

Of course it depends on the government's ability to spend, in the context of strategy and the funds that can be allocated to it, as it does for every other government program.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Only the funds that are left over will go to official languages.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

We have completed three rounds. I would like to thank our witnesses and wish them...

Did you want to speak, Mr. Petit?