Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2008

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I take that as a compliment, don't worry. Good talk or bad talk, as long as you talk about me, that's fine.

Thanks to our witnesses for being here today. I'm happy to be one of the well-educated people because I speak three languages: English, French and Chiac.

I know it may be only a commercial designation, but I find it hard to see language presented as an industry. It goes a bit further than that, I think. There are two founding peoples in Canada, and I wouldn't want language to represent an industry because French is having a hard time. You say we need an industry to teach us to speak or to teach Anglophones French. We aren't machines; we're human beings.

The industry idea troubles me a bit, but I don't want to offend you. I know you're in it to make money rather than for the real reason, which is human reality and the fact that there are now a number of peoples in Canada. In fact, there are English, French, Quebec, Acadian and Aboriginal peoples. We must speak in a manner respectful of those peoples. So presenting language as an industry troubles me a little this morning. Don't worry, I just wanted to get that off my mind.

Ms. Demers, don't be insulted because you didn't see Mr. Lord; he's just a walking shadow. It's because the Prime Minister wants an action plan; he wants it in his own way and not in the way people want it. So don't be angry. You can sleep peacefully. You're in good hands here with a parliamentary committee that represents the citizens and that will try to represent you as best it can.

What do you think is the difference between the language training school and the current evening courses that you mentioned? Do you think that's a step backwards?

[Michèle Demers]

There's been a reversal in accessibility. I tip my hat to certain departments. I know, for example, that Natural Resources Canada has hired language teachers out of its overall training budget to provide two hours of courses a week, I believe, to individuals who want to learn the second language. I find that praiseworthy, but of course it's not enough.

How many years will it take for a person to become bilingual at a rate of two hours a week? Why is language training offered solely to people who are in EX category positions? That's virtually how it goes. I don't want to make a startling and incorrect statement, but I don't think I'm far wrong in saying that 90% to 95% of full-time language training is offered to that class of employees. Are the other employees of the federal public service half-wits? Don't they have the same rights as senior managers to learn a second language in order to aspire to develop their career and fill positions?

There has to be a political will and a will on the part of the public service. There also has to be funding because nothing happens by magic. You need money to train people. There has to be a will for the money to be granted.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, we're talking about money. According to the research, the Action Plan is working very well. But it was said that the Action Plan would create additional regular minority language instruction programs. However, we realize thatwe're ultimately short $132 million. It was promised that a total of $209 million would be allocated to the Action Plan by March 2008, but the government allocated $256 million. It could thump its chest and say that it had been kind because it gave nearly $50 million more to provide minority language education.

However, you have to study the Action Plan. The government says it's not true. I challenge it to contradict those figures. In my opinion, those are the right figures. They were compiled and checked by the Library of Parliament.

From 2003 to 2007, the regular program suffered such cuts that, instead of $724 million, it received $544 million. So it's short $132 million. I don't hear one province criticizing the loss suffered in the regular programs; I don't hear a single word. No university has said a word. In fact, we're talking about minority language education. No school in Canada is lamenting the fact.

Everywhere we go, people tell us they need that money. For example, the Francophone minorities want young people to learn English; they want child care in the schools so that youths can benefit from it. The Anglophone group Canadian Parents for French came to meet us a number of times and told us that there weren't enough immersion schools, that teachers were lacking and that parents wanted their children to learn French.

The bilingualism problem would be solved in 12 years if we went back to square one and started providing education at the beginning. I support Mr. Chong, who laments this fact all the time, saying that we should put the emphasis on education.

I agree with you, Mr. Chong.

In the meantime, the public service has a job to do to help its employees keep their jobs and learn both languages.

I believe I've said enough. I'm going to leave you some time. Then I'll have to leave because I have an important meeting. I don't mean by that that yours isn't important, but the other is as well.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have about 30 seconds left to comment.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, is that 30 seconds each?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

No, no.

[Ed Cashman]

Mr. Godin, you talked about figures, but it's also important to talk about people, about persons. In the public service, we see that there are two cultures, two generations affected. The money is allocated to managers. As Ms. Demers said, these are people in their fifties. As regards the reality of bilingualism requirements, the burden is now on the young people that we want so much to recruit in the public service. They're the ones who are penalized because they don't have access to language training. If you want to build a public service for the future, you have to invest in our young people. That's what's lacking right now.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for being concise, Mr. Cashman.

Now it's the turn of Mr. Lemieux of the government party.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm going to share my time with Mr. Harvey.

I would like to talk about Mr. Lord's work. He was appointed by the government to conduct major consultations on the Action Plan. He is highly respected, and his appointment was well received by our official language minority communities. He travelled across Canada and met a lot of different organizations in every region of our country.

In addition to that, the process he put in place allowed groups to make submissions to him and his committee.

Madame Demers, you have a strong position and an important message. I'd like to know if you made a written submission to Mr. Lord's commission.

[Michèle Demers]

No, I didn't.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Mr. Cashman, did you make one for the Public Service Alliance?

[Ed Cashman]

No.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.

Monsieur Harvey.

I wanted to know whether or not you had prepared a brief.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I'm listening to you, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have to go, so I used a point of order.

I just think it's through respect that they want to meet them face-to-face and not be second-class citizens.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Lemieux, do you wish to speak?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's not a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I agree.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

That's an abuse of a point of order, Monsieur Godin.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin. I'll take note of your point of order, but I'm nevertheless going to allow parliamentarians to continue talking to our guests.

Mr. Harvey, go ahead, please.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I believe almost all of you are bilingual. Mr. Cashman, you speak very good French. I suppose your mother tongue is English. Ms. Demers, you speak very good French. I see that from your name. I suppose you speak very good English as well. Mr. Peralta, you speak very good French. I suppose you speak very good English, and perhaps you even speak a third language.

[Gonzola Peralta]

I speak four languages.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Mr. Chamsi, you speak very good French. How many languages do you speak?

[Alain Chamsi]

Five.