Official Languages Committee on Feb. 14th, 2008

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

And for me as well, Mr. Petit. Take note of that.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

We could trade some interesting remarks.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I agree with Mr. Petit that this is a question of governance. It's in fact the question that concerns us. I also completely support Mr. Simard's comments. We seem to want to identify a problem, or at least put the finger on the problem. I believe that transferring the Official Languages Secretariat from the Privy Council Office to the Department of Canadian Heritage is at the source of that problem.

I agree with Mr. Simard on that question as well. When I was the minister responsible for official languages and he was my parliamentary secretary, the Secretariat had a mandate to coordinate and oversee what went on with the implementation of the Action Plan for Official Languages.

I'll explain why I think Mr. Godin's motion is valid.

We monitored what went on. Now that the Secretariat has been transferred—and that's a decision by Mr. Harper's government—the problem nevertheless boils down to a question of governance. The person responsible, and her title indicates that, is Ms. Verner. She is the Minister of Canadian Heritage, but we're not inviting her in that capacity, and the minister for the status of women, and we're not inviting her in that capacity either, but she is also minister responsible for official languages. She can bring whomever she wants when she comes to appear, people from the Public Service Agency, from the Privy Council Office or from her Secretariat, whomever. We're clearly seeking to know how that coordination is currently done in the public service.

As far as I know, there is one player we haven't even spoken to, and that's the Treasury Board. From what I know, it is responsible for establishing policy. I think it's entirely legitimate for Ms. Verner to come and testify, not next week, but the following week, I hope, on the way her government is taking charge of that governance, of that coordination question.

Ultimately, we could invite the Prime Minister, given that it was he who decided to transfer the Official Languages Secretariat to the Department of Canadian Heritage. I think that, for the moment, inviting the minister responsible is a respectful gesture, in that it shows that we understand the Cabinet hierarchy and that we are speaking to the person responsible for that governance. That's a response to both Mr. Lemieux's remarks and Mr. Petit's questions.

Mr. Godin's motion is perfectly legitimate, utterly reasonable, and I think we should adopt it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mauril.

Mr. Gravel.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I wasn't here in 2003 either. I wasn't even here in 2006. We said earlier that we didn't want to waste our time or waste the minister's time. However, I get the impression that we're wasting our time this morning. I find it hard to believe that we can be hearing this kind of nonsense. Mr. Lemieux, either the minister doesn't want to come—

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

There is a point of order.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I think everyone is speaking properly. If the Bloc québécois representative wishes to say this kind of thing, this isn't the place: this meeting is public. If he isn't pleased, that his business. He says we're talking nonsense, and I think that should be withdrawn. That isn't the purpose of this meeting, all right?

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

It's not acceptable in a parliamentary context.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

In any case, I'm going to say what I have to say.

[An hon. member]

Precisely, we can't say everything we want.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One moment. Mr. Petit, I think that's a poin of debate, for the moment. Whatever the case may be, I'm going to appeal to the good will of all committee members by asking them to be open-minded when they make comments, and not necessarily to make value judgments on the comments made. That doesn't help us move the debates forward.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I mean that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That's why I ask you to continue, Mr. Gravel.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I get the impression we're wasting our time. I think the motion is legitimate. If you listen to what's being said on the other side, you conclude that either the minister doesn't want to come, which appears to be the case, or she is incompetent. If she is the minister for official languages, she should be competent and be able to answer our questions.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I have a point of order.

That's enough. You don't have the right to use the term “incompetent” in speaking of parliamentarians. Can you prove that she is incompetent, Mr. Gravel?

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

No.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Then withdraw your remarks. That's enough.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I'm not saying she's incompetent.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

That's enough. Is that clear?

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

I didn't say she was incompetent. I said that, judging from the remarks we hear from the other side, either she can't come—

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

We understand what you mean, Mr. Gravel. That's enough.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Order, please. We'll speak one at a time.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

Yes, and I would like to finish.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Gravel, I'm going to finish my remarks.

There is a lot of noise around the table, and I find it hard to hear what's being said. Mr. Gravel, I'd like you to note that we are debating a motion and that suggestions accompanying that motion are being discussed. You have the right to feel this isn't productive, but committee members have a right to speak and not to share your point of view.