Official Languages Committee on Feb. 14th, 2008

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

And be non-repetitive.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

— and must be non-repetitive. There are rules, Mr. Lemieux. You are someone who is really attached to the Standing Orders. It seems to me you should follow them.

Otherwise, if we talk about Mr. Trudeau, for our part, we'll want to talk about Mr. Harper and his comment that “bilingualism is the god that failed.” I'd really like to welcome Mr. Harper here. We'll never be done if we go down that road.

Mr. Chairman, we have to maintain a certain amount of decorum—we talked about that earlier—we have to discuss Mr. Godin's motion and decide whether or not we invite the minister to appear before the committee.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ultimately, you're raising a point of order to indicate that we have to hold relevant discussions.

This morning—

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Are they on the same point of order?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ultimately, this discussion concerns Mr. Godin's motion. Perhaps Mr. Lemieux would like to continue.

I would simply like to check as to whether you want to amend this motion, Mr. Lemieux, because if you want to submit another motion unrelated to the one we're debating, I would recommend that you state it in a separate motion and introduce it.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you for the advice, Mr. Chair, and thank you for the advice, Monsieur Simard.

My point is this. The conversation today actually started with your saying that the first part of the meeting would be public and that we would be discussing committee business. Then Monsieur Godin's motion came up. We began discussing his motion, but within the context of the debate of that motion we were trying to determine who should best meet with the committee as we finalize our report.

Our discussion this morning has not just been about the minister, it has been about--

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One moment.

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like to remind you, Mr. Chairman, that, if you check the agenda, it states: “Committee Business — Motion from Yvon Godin”. That's what's entered under “Committee Business”.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

That's number one.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's not written that we have to hold a public meeting to discuss future business. It states: “Committee Business — Motion from Yvon Godin”. I would like you to take a look at the agenda and for us to stick to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I allow your point of order in that debate must concern the motion and that there may be a vote on the motion. Subsequently, if there are other subjects—

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great.

Monsieur Godin has proposed that the minister come in front of the committee. One of my proposals was that the minister not come in front of the committee because it might not be appropriate--this is part of debate--and that the Canada Public Service Agency come in front of the committee.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, I have a point of order.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Not again.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Well, you believe in democracy or--

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

No. How come your points of order are not points of order? They're points of debate.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, Monsieur Lemieux said he believes in democracy and that people should talk. It's part of democracy and of the rules that you're allowed to ask for a point of order. If he believes in democracy, he should let me speak.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have a point of order on what subject?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Great!

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

He said very clearly, Mr. Chair, that...if he wants a motion to not have the minister come, that would go against the motion--completely against the motion. The motion is for her to come. If he doesn't want her to come, he just has to vote against it. You cannot have a motion going against a motion. You cannot go contrary to the motion.

We have to deal with the motion, and if you don't like the motion you vote against the motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

The argument is that, if people aren't in favour of a motion, they may vote against it and propose a debate on the subject. That's more an item of information than a point of order. I'm going to ask you to—

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I did not put forward a motion against his motion. I did not do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

One moment, please. One can of course make excessive use of procedures, but I would ask members to continue the debate and perhaps to let Mr. Lemieux speak.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Okay. I would like to comment on what Mr. Godin is saying.

I did not suggest putting forward a motion against his motion. We are discussing his motion, and I'm allowed to have an opinion. I'm allowed to comment in my debate that I don't happen to think it's a good idea to have the minister. That doesn't mean I'm putting forward a motion directly contrary to his motion. It's part of debate.

I don't understand what these members here across the table don't understand about debate. I look at you, Mr. Rodriguez, and it's unfair because you've been most amiable this morning.