Evidence of meeting #24 for Official Languages in the 39th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was consultations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
As part of your terms of reference, the minister said that the government wanted to tour Canada. The official languages committee includes members of all political parties. The government felt it was incumbent on it to travel around the country. You were selected as a special consultant to hold those hearings around the country.
In fact, were you charged with reporting to the department on comments made by the communities?
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
As you said, my task was to chair consultation sessions which had been scheduled, and to report the comments made by participants. I was also charged with looking at some specific issues like demographics, modernization of the state, and the new economy of the 21st century. There was an open discussion session.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Knowing the government's position on the Court Challenges Program, and given that you had to report to the minister, could you not have said—without making recommendations—that every community you visited spoke to you about the program? Would that not have been the right thing to do?
I agree with Mr. Lemieux. You said what we had already said. He simply forgot to add that you did not directly mention the Court Challenges Program.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
I explained this earlier. I did mention having heard comments on the Court Challenges Program elsewhere, and the minister knows it. When the minister sat beside me in Ottawa, we spoke of it, and I have also spoken with her on other occasions. On page 19 or 20, depending on whether you have the French or English version of the report, I indicate that this is something that emerged during the consultations.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Did talking about the Court Challenges Program make you uncomfortable?
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
No, not at all.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
No, I am not easily made uncomfortable.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I know that you are not easily made uncomfortable. Generally, we do not tell you what to do. Here, it gives the wrong impression because we know the minister did not want to talk about the Court Challenges Program. That is one of the charges I would level against her. She talked about it in camera because she did not want the newspapers to talk about it. The main reason for abolishing the Court Challenges Program is not really one that relates to official languages. It is because the government did not like the fact the program was used to defend the rights of gays, lesbians and minorities, as well as the status of women. That may be one of the reasons behind criticisms of the minister.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
You can make any assumptions you like. That was not part of my mandate. I do not feel uncomfortable, nor do you.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
You have a very good imagination, Mr. Godin, just as I do.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
Francophones in Canada have achieved some gains. I am sure you have been told that today, there are French-language schools in Prince Edward Island and Nova Scotia because of the Court Challenges Program. Montfort Hospital survived because it received help under the Court Challenges Program. Good cases have been won by francophone minorities before the courts, not only because of the government's goodwill.
I would charge the Liberals with being just as responsible, since they were in power longer than the Conservatives have been.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
There is no doubt of that. I have already said this, and I am happy to say it again: some cases that came before the courts confirmed rights established under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms and under existing provincial statutes, enabling individuals to exercise their rights.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
The courts confirmed their rights, but the creation of schools is something that has to be imposed.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
Those cases allowed the courts to tell some governments what to do with regard to the rights of specific groups. However, claiming that all these cases would not have been possible without the Court Challenges Program is something else altogether.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
I have never claimed that this program was the only means. I asked whether this program, in some cases, enabled people to win their case.
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
It can assist some people.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
For example, the colleges and universities asked the government to get involved with regard to language. I think this is part of your second recommendation. It refers to culture and universities.
Is any of the $1 billion set aside for universities in order to enable the creation of classes and hiring of professors?
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
There are two aspects. First, we need to support those institutions that already provide programs for minority communities. Some people told me, for example, that the anglophone universities in western Canada were providing courses or programs to francophones. There has to be some clarity here.
Some francophone institutions are concerned. If other anglophone institutions are offering programs, this could undermine the ability of francophone institutions to survive, as well as their vitality, because they would be losing some of their clientele. If the government decides to implement that recommendation, it will have to determine in which programs it will invest. Will it invest in a francophone program at the University of New Brunswick if the University of Moncton is only 180 kilometres away? Is it the same to invest in a program at the University of British Columbia or Simon Fraser University, where there are no francophone institutions close by? Those issues have to be resolved during the implementation of this recommendation.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you very much, Mr. Godin.
We have now completed four rounds of questions.
M. Coderre and Mr. Chong would like to ask a final question. We have a few minutes left, so we will allow them to ask very brief questions. So, Mr. Coderre, Mr. Chong and Mr. Godin, please be very quick, because we have to vacate the room.
Mr. Coderre.
Liberal
Denis Coderre Liberal Bourassa, QC
In light of what my colleague and friend Mr. Lord has said, I would recommend him as a Conservative candidate. One thing is certain, contrary to what Mr. Godin has said, when the Conservatives cut the Court Challenges Program, we were prepared to restore it.
You more or less said that you agreed to hear certain witnesses, within the framework of your mandate. You said that it was the government who had organized things, and that this was okay with you. However, on the other hand, you had the flexibility of deciding who could take part in your events, and you allowed some witnesses to appear.
However, you know that bilingualism in the public service is important and in fact essential. I recently undertook a disturbing trip to the Magdalen Islands to attend the funerals of the four sealers. The mother of one of the young missing men was not able to obtain services in her language and it took many hours to deal with this because she couldn't speak English. I think that when we're talking about bilingualism throughout Canada, if Minister Verner has given you a mandate, it would be important to know what is happening within her own government.
Why did you refuse to meet with the Public Service Alliance of Canada? In fact, if it was so important to make your recommendations, why not include the issue of language in the public service?
Special Advisor for the Consultations on Linguistic Duality and Official Languages, Government of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Coderre.
My view is that the Government of Canada should provide services in the language of choice of citizens. It has a constitutional and legal responsibility to do so and it must do so. There is no doubt about that. In the same way, other governments in Canada have similar obligations and even, in some cases, greater obligations than the Government of Canada. New Brunswick, for example, has greater obligations than the Government of Canada.
It was not within my mandate at the beginning to focus particularly on the training situation of federal government employees or the way they offered or provided service to the public. It is clear, and I mentioned this in several places, that providing service in the language of citizens' choice is one of the government's responsibilities, and the government needs to assume that responsibility.
As I mentioned earlier, I agreed to meet with certain individuals and groups because it seemed to me that they were more in line with the mandate I had been given. I refused to meet with others because they were not as good a fit with my mandate and because my time was limited.