Official Languages Committee on April 15th, 2008

[Richard Stursberg]

I agree and I have no problem with that.

When we talk about New Brunswick, we are talking about probably the most bilingual and bicultural region in our country that you can imagine. I can assure you that it is not the same thing in Toronto or even in western Canada, and—

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Stursberg, I want to give you an example. Some of my close family members live in Manitoba. One member of the family is francophone, the other is anglophone. The children watch TV in both languages. Don't you think that this would have brought some additional culture to them and that this would have shown them that francophones are also doing good work throughout the country?

[Richard Stursberg]

That is not the issue. We provide two services: one service in English and one service in French. We're not offering bilingual service. I understand full well that people are perfectly fluent in French and English, in New Brunswick, Quebec and in eastern Ontario, but, unfortunately, the reality of our country is that many people don't understand a word of French. If you go to Toronto, it's sad but true. I am from Toronto, and I—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Stursberg. You will be able to further develop that idea if...

The members have now been able to speak. Mr. Lebel would like to speak. Do any other members want to speak?

We will continue. Mr. Nadeau, do you have something to add? And you, Mr. Godin?

We will continue with Mr. Denis Lebel.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Stursberg, for coming and for your presentation. You are well aware that I, like the others, disagree with the approach that you propose in this matter.

As parliamentarians, our duty is to promote our country's two official languages, and we do so with pleasure. It's not often that what we do is important. Kudos for the job you are doing and the many efforts you're making. However, the devil is in the details, as they say in Quebec. A mistake was made in how such an important event as a national gala to recognize Canadian music was dealt with. The annual gala has been held for the past four years and the same mistake has been made every year.

If there are any francophones at the gala, they should be shown on TV like the others. When your name is Claude Dubois, when you're one of the best francophone singers in the world and when you're told in a contract that the highlights of the gala that you're taking part in will be broadcast, you have reason to believe that your performance could be broadcast, no matter which language you perform in.

I understand that it's a matter of supply and demand. There is a demand for English, so the French content is not being supplied. It's a business decision. Is this the case, Mr. Stursberg?

[Richard Stursberg]

In fact, we made a decision based on the nature of our audience, and what will interest them. In that sense, yes, it's true.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

I will eagerly await the corporation's financial results. I don't think that your mandate is necessarily a financial one. I understand that you have budgetary obligations, but cutting out one portion of the cultural content of a show broadcast throughout Canada which concerns francophones is, in my opinion, a strategic error.

[Richard Stursberg]

It wasn't for financial reasons.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

No?

[Richard Stursberg]

As I said, we made a decision—

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

But, Mr. Stursberg—

[Richard Stursberg]

Time was short and we had to make a decision. We decided to focus on Paul Anka and Oscar Peterson. I am well aware that you believe that we made a mistake.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Since I am short on time, I'm going to ask another question.

Is it true that the members of the hall of fame insisted that Mr. Dubois' performance be broadcast during the show?

[Richard Stursberg]

The chairman of the hall of fame wrote to us to ask that we include Claude Dubois. We did so on the radio, but not on television.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Stursberg, when I hear you say today that you consulted with the hall of fame about who was coming and we know that the chairman asked you to include Claude Dubois, are we right in thinking that this might happen again in the future?

[Richard Stursberg]

Yes. As I said, we are currently considering—

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

You said you consulted with the hall of fame. The chairman of the hall of fame asked you to include Claude Dubois last year, and you did not. You are telling me that you consulted the hall of fame with regard to your current decision. If that is the case, things are not going to change.

[Richard Stursberg]

I spoke at length with the members of the hall of fame. I talked to Peter Steinmetz on several occasions with regard to what we had done.

[Denis Lebel, Conservative, Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Before I move on to the next question, Mr. Stursberg, I want you to know that I am extremely proud of a town in my riding, Roberval, which won the Kraft Hockeyville competition by CBC this year. I hope that you'll come to Roberval with Don Cherry. You will receive a very warm welcome and we will talk in a language to ensure that we can properly communicate with the people who come visit us. We will also make sure that we continue to promote both official languages in our beautiful country and in my riding of Roberval—Lac-Saint-Jean.

In closing, I want to tell you that the CBC also has a mandate. I understand that things can be done in English and in French, but when there is an annual gala highlighting the cream in Canadian music, we must really ensure that all Canadians watching TV, and not just those listening to the radio, can be exposed to the francophone culture, be it from Quebec or elsewhere in Canada.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lebel.

I will come back to Mr. Nadeau then, Mr. Godin will end the third round of questions.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Stursberg, here are my observations. First, you work for a public company. Francophones in Canada represent about 25% of the population. There is a critical mass in Quebec, but there are also francophones elsewhere throughout Canada. Consequently, they must see themselves reflected in a music hall of fame that reflects the entire country, Canada, 25% of the population of which speak a different language and have a different culture than that of English Canada. They must be included in a gala that wants to represent all of Canada.

It can't be any other way. It's as if we decided to show some goals in hockey because so and so scored them and not show other goals made by those who speak a different language or have a different culture. That wouldn't work.

Here, we're talking about songs; we're not talking about an English show where all the texts are in French. It's about songs, and a song can be in any language. When the band Kashtin or the Naskapis from the North Shore sang, they did so in their language, which is Montagnais. I saw them sing on the CBC and on the SRC. They weren't edited out because they didn't speak the language of the public station.

The message you're sending us—and I'm a sovereignist—is the rejection by English Canadians of Quebec francophone, Franco-Canadian, Acadian culture, and so on, during a gala of the Canadian music hall of fame. That message is wrong. I have English-speaking friends who are as interested in what is happening in French music, be it from Quebec or Acadie, as what is happening elsewhere in the world or in Canada in music.

As a result, there must not be such a barrier, please. Francophone Quebec taxpayers, just as much as anglophones, must see themselves reflected on television and on the radio, during a broadcast of the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame gala, which must reflect the two official languages communities in Canada: the Quebec nation and the Canadian nation.

Stop saying that people don't want to see it. It's not true. It's public television. If they want to watch private Canadian, Quebec, American or any other television station, that's their right. But if they stopped to watch the Songwriters Hall of Fame gala, they're entitled to see both the Eva Avilas of the world, who sing and talk Spanish, French and English, and the Claude Dubois, even if they are less well known, in your opinion. You have every interest in exposing people to all artists.

This is not a question, it's a comment. I hope that you are going to take note of it for the next gala. In any case, the minutes of this meeting will be available.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

Mr. Godin, Mr. Coderre and Mr. Chong have indicated that they wish to speak.

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Earlier, you referred to francophone communities in Quebec and Acadie. Were you aware of the fact that due to the oil industry job boom in Alberta, there were now many francophones in the province? There are a great number of them, possibly in areas where francophone television is inaccessible. They may be listening to the CBC. You have to consider what is currently happening in our country. This committee is discussing our country's two official languages. Don't take this the wrong way, I am not trying to say that CBC should become a francophone television network. That is not our purpose here. We have a francophone television network, Radio-Canada.

We have some difficulty with the idea that a song could make viewers change channels. We're talking about singers and songs here. If Claude Dubois is unknown, then why was he invited to the hall of fame gala. That is not the type of event you would invite unknown artists to. Someone chose to invite him and asked whether it would be possible for him to be on the air.

You then used the passing of Oscar Peterson as an argument, stating that you needed to set aside a lot of time for him. But this has been ongoing for four years now. There has not been one death a year during that period, has there? Let's put our cards on the table. The CBC's attitude is the same as that of Radio-Canada. Radio-Canada believes that if things don't come from Montreal they are worthless even though there are 7 million people living in Quebec. Acadian artists do not have their rightful place on Radio-Canada television. We have the same problem: ratings.

But we cannot lose sight of the fact that CBC and Radio-Canada are publicly funded. Public television is able to broadcast culture throughout a country. That is what we want. I am not talking about a half-hour report in French that viewers would not understand a word of. I can understand CBC's position. But in this case the straw that broke the camel's back was the fact that we were talking about a song.

[Richard Stursberg]

Thank you for your comments. You may be surprised to hear about one aspect of CBC funding. As I told Mr. Lebel earlier, we did not take this decision for financial reasons, but at the end of the day we have very difficult financial challenges to deal with. It is true that English-language television is a public broadcaster, but over the course of this fiscal year, 55% of our budget will be coming from the private sector. So, in a way, we are as private as we are public. The pressure is on. I am not simply stating this to defend our decision on the show: it is reality.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.