Official Languages Committee on May 5th, 2009

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes, and I'm responding to your comments.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Minister, I spent seven years in Saskatchewan, working to set up a French school board. French schools were abolished in 1931 and did not exist again until 1995.

In Manitoba, your province, we were fortunate to have people like George Forest who stood up. From 1890 to 1979, Franco-Manitobans did not even have the right to be tried in their language in your province, which resulted in terrible assimilation to the point where today, in Saskatchewan, there are only eight French schools, whereas there were 63 in 1931. So don't tell me that assimilation does not exist in western Canada or elsewhere. I am a Franco-Ontarian by birth, sir, and you cannot teach me any lessons about Canada.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I'm simply responding to some of the very erroneous statements that you left on the record. I needed to correct those, and I thank the chair for allowing me to do that.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Lise Zarac]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

We will now turn the floor over to Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good morning, Minister. Is your deputy minister bilingual and, if so, at what level?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's very difficult for someone like me to understand, given that I don't speak any French, but he does speak French. I find that the more I can understand French, the poorer their French is. In fact, I can't understand him when he speaks French, so I assume it's good French.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I do not want to play cat and mouse with you. You are the boss, you are the minister. You should know whether your deputy minister, who reports to you, is bilingual. My question is clear. Is your deputy minister bilingual, yes or no?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I've made it very clear that all of my officials are entitled to speak French in meetings with me if they choose to speak French. I will of course need translation. I know that the deputy minister does speak French. The level of the French would be in his public service record, and I would be happy to bring him here to have him explain directly how much French he speaks.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I would like to know the level of competence of your deputy minister in French.

On page 39 of the Sixteenth Annual Report to the Prime Minister on the Public Service of Canada, there is a table entitled “Previous Human Resources Governance Structure”. Official languages are found under the heading “Implementation of the PSMA”, the Public Service Modernization Act.

Could you explain to me why official languages are no longer part of this new human resources governance structure?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

The responsibilities related to official languages have not changed at all in the movement from the old structure to the new structure. In fact, the amount of money dedicated to official languages has not changed. That has remained—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Minister, why don't the words “official languages” appear in the structure? Why were the words removed? Your government is telling us that, with our Roadmap and the promotion of official languages, etc., that it is establishing a new structure. So good-bye to official languages!

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

As I understand from Madame d'Auray, it is in there. It's indicated in there. Perhaps she can indicate to you where it is.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have page 39 before me. I would like to have some explanations. I am studying the new structure, and those words are not found there. In the former structure, official languages were found on the following page, but it is no longer there. Are there any words written somewhere in this report which state that we respect official languages, or whether this is part of the structure?

[Michelle d'Auray, Chief Human Resources Officer, Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer, Treasury Board Secretariat]

It is part of the structure. The components that came under the former Public Service Agency of Canada are now found in my office; they are exactly the same. The people who reported on this issue under the former structure are also here. You can see that Mr. O'Sullivan, who was formally from the agency, now reports to me. The duties, policies, anything that has to do with departmental support remain exactly the same.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

So why was this reference been taken out?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Essentially, in order to simplify things, we kept the responsibility for policies and coordination. These are the aspects which are represented here and they are exactly the same.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Don't you think that sends a strange message? An individual reading the annual report and comparing both structures may wonder what happened to official languages. They're basically on your desk now, from what I gather.

[Michelle d'Auray]

No. You're saying they're now on my desk?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, you referred to your desk.

[Michelle d'Auray]

No, my office is responsible for that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It's in your office? So, it's now within your office?

[Michelle d'Auray]

We're talking about the structure.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They're not on your desk but in your office?

[Michelle d'Auray]

I would say that the duties, the structure, which previously fell under the agency's area of jurisdiction are now squarely within mine.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

What can you tell Canadians? The report is for them, they need to be informed that it is ambiguous. We see what is going on in the area of official languages. Things aren't moving ahead at 300 miles an hour in the area of official languages. Otherwise, there would be no need for an official languages committee. What is the status of official languages in the Roadmap and what is being done in this area?