Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you very much Mr. Chairman.

Ms. Therriault-Power, Mr. Paquet, thank you very much for testifying before us today.

Please excuse me if I don't plan to be hostile while asking you these questions.

Over the long Labour Day weekend, my family and I came back to Canada at around one o'clock on Tuesday at the Thousand Islands. There was only one border officer there. I thought that the Thousand Islands border crossing was an important one, but there was only one officer there and he was a bilingual anglophone. My son was driving our car and therefore he was the one who answered the questions. He thought he would answer in French in order to move things along faster because the bilingual anglophone—who was a little round—might feel like simplifying his life. Perhaps the best advice is to always address border officers in French in anglophone regions.

I listened very closely to the claims that Mr. D'Amours made and I felt his passion. However I did not appreciate the hostile tone of his questions. If there were any truth in the complaint that he raised, then this has to do with a behavioural problem on the part of at least one of your employees, and this is rather serious. We are there to help people, not to make their lives more difficult.

I listened closely to Ms. Guay's questions, that were asked not in the least bit angrily or confrontationally. However, even though these were quite reasonable questions, no replies were forthcoming.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

She asked for figures and numbers.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Yes, but these were very straightforward numbers that you should have had on the tips of your fingers for your own purposes.

I will now ask my question.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

What I will do, Mr. Galipeau, is to find them in order to be accurate. I wrote to the committee, and I will provide this information as soon as possible.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you.

What I'm interested in hearing, for the good of the cause before us today, is a description of the learning plans that border officers use to further their skills.

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

[Pierre Paquet]

I apologize to the member. Are you talking about learning plans for a specific topic, or—

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

What I'm trying to understand is how these problems related to attitude can be avoided in the future.

I have also asked to be provided with service in my own language by a border officer who ended up rolling his eyes and making me feel like I was a trouble-maker, simply because I'm someone who understands his rights and attempts to affirm them, regularly, but with no hostility.

I still recall my friend, Michel Thibodeau, from Orleans, who asked for a 7UP in an airplane and was characterized as a trouble-maker because he asked for it in French. I know you were not personally involved, but this happens often.

How can we train our employees in order to avoid these types of situations?

[Pierre Paquet]

I will talk to you about the theoretical aspect. To put you in context, the Port of Entry Recruit Training Program is divided into two main phases. Distance learning is offered online for a four-week period, 40 hours per week. Already at this phase, the Official Languages Act is explained. The concept of language and the values underpinning the act, that is respect, fairness and diversity, are introduced.

When the recruits complete the online training and go to the CBSA Learning Centre in Rigaud, the question of official languages is dealt with horizontally, that is, through different modules, officers are encouraged and taught to appreciate linguistic duality. One of the modules deals with how to treat travellers on the primary inspection line, like when you were questioned with your family at Landsdowne. This is active offer. We ask officers to make an active offer without waiting to find out whether the people are francophone or not. The service must be offered actively and French must be spoken if the officer is bilingual. We teach the officers what to do and what not to do. For example, they must never say, “Sorry I don't speak French.” In theory, these are things that should never be done.

In Rigaud, we have classes in French and in English. There is thus a spirit of togetherness that develops between the francophone and anglophone classes. The communities appreciate one another in terms of language, culture, etc. So these are methods we use to educate our officers and train them to give good customer service.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Galipeau.

We will now go to Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm going to read you an article by Paul Gaboury from the newspaper Le Droit. I don't know whether you've read it.

A group of five French-speaking travellers from the National Capital Region feels that they were treated like second-class citizens when they were dealt with by CBSA customs officers, who were unable to serve them in their mother tongue upon their return to Canada. Pierre Lauzière of Gatineau arrived at the Ottawa airport on December 1, 2008, after a visit to Las Vegas with his wife and son, as well as with a couple of friends. But to their great astonishment, none of the customs officers present at the three customs counters who were working at around noon that day were able to serve them in French. “The customs officers on duty were all unilingual anglophones. They asked me whether there was a problem if they served me in English. We replied that it was not ideal, but that we did not feel like waiting to obtain French services,” says Mr. Lauzière. Another member of the group went to a counter where the sign stated that bilingual service was available. After having been greeted by a customs officer who wished him “Bienvenue au Canada”, he was surprised to find out that this officer did not understand anything he said in French. He was certainly not bilingual to the extent that the sign posted would seem to indicate. Considering this situation “absurd, disrespectful and contemptuous,” Mr. Lauzière decided to file a complaint with the official languages commissioner, even though he was sure that he would become just another statistic. But he did not stop there. And that is why he decided to go public with his mishap. “Why did the other anglophone Canadian citizens, who were on the same flight as us, receive service in their mother tongue whereas we did not? I felt like a second-class citizen. Isn't it only normal that we receive service in our mother tongue? We live in a bilingual country and we should be entitled to such service especially in the airport of our national capital. It is a very embarrassing and degrading situation,” he pointed out. “It's extremely unpleasant to come back to Canada and to be greeted in this fashion. I felt more at home when I arrived in the United States. We were treated better as tourists.”

This article is dated December 16, 2008.

I know you have a job to do, that you represent an agency and so forth, but all is not well. I understand the theory, but in practice, there are problems. Whether there is one complaint submitted to you or 10, that doesn't change the fact that there are problems. I have serious doubts about your ability, as an agency representing Canada, to ensure that a foreigner, a Quebecker or a Canadian who arrives at the airport or at a border crossing feels at home or feels that he is coming to a country where French has the same value as English.

You answered several questions a bit earlier, but there is much to be done, and I hope that when it comes time to offer your courses, whether it be in Rigaud or elsewhere, you will not announce that “This bilingual course will be given in English,” which is something that I have already heard.

When a doctor needs to be called, we ensure that he has the required training, but the same is not true for people who are responsible for greeting people who come from abroad or from another region of the country. These people should be able to answer travellers in both official languages and know what to do if they have difficulty understanding the language used by the people addressing them. You tell us that good work is being done, but I would like to know whether these problem situations can be avoided and whether there are improvements that will be made.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I would ask that you answer fairly briefly. Mr. Nadeau's preamble was quite long and he used up all his time. We are now coming to the end of the three rounds of questions. Perhaps Ms. Glover would like to say something.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

I would just like to say that I take your comments and concerns very seriously. I will follow up on this, especially with regard to the Ottawa airport and its management to try and determine if there are problems with the inspection and control measures. I want to ensure that the situation gets better. We do a great deal of training and promotion. I'm not here to make excuses, but I can tell you that we will follow up these questions that concern you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau and Mr. Godin.

Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome.

I'm going to speak English so that we can celebrate that we have two official languages. I have just a comment and then I have a question.

My comment would be that I know what the investigations are about, and I know that you do as well. I appreciate that when we're in a setting such as this, and we only have five minutes, it's very hard to do an investigation. I see here today that it appears that some of our MPs are trying to do investigations and aren't quite letting you finish your responses. So I would hope that you don't leave this place thinking we have a full picture, because we're not going to have a full picture here--and the MPs realize that as well.

I do want to comment that I have total respect for the Commissioner of Official Languages. I find it odd to hear other MPs who are criticizing the investigation that was done, because he has the benefit of a team of investigators; he has the benefit of being able to hear your answers, hear the answers of any of the witnesses involved. I place great faith in his office, and I'm sure the investigation that was done by his office was thorough and was not interrupted every two seconds, in the same way as we see happening here today. I hope we continue to respect his authority.

I just want to comment that any time we have a complaint with regard to official languages, it is under his authority that we must seek redress. So I would suggest to Monsieur D'Amours--and I don't think this is the first time I've suggested this--that if he believes he has a complaint, to do the right thing, to make a complaint.

I live in the city of Winnipeg. Since you brought up the massage...many, many months ago I purposely went through our airport and spoke French every single time. There has never been a single offer of a massage, nor has there been a single moment where I didn't get service in French within 30 to 60 seconds. So I would encourage Mr. D'Amours to stop complaining. If it's really taken seriously, use the redress that we have, use the powers that we have in place, and don't mock them.

Those are my comments.

I do have a question. We received a document from the Vancouver Airport Authority that highlights the CBSA's plans to offer services to francophones. Some of the things include recurring training for all front-line staff, pocket cards with phonetic translations, mousepads with phonetic translations. I think these are wonderful initiatives, which we haven't heard about. Perhaps you could address those a little bit.

I'd also like to know why we don't implement those post the Olympics and Paralympics as well. I think they would serve us well in a continued effort.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes. I think they are already being utilized. What we're doing is bringing an intensity to training to ensure that we're in a position to offer service in an increased traveller capacity situation, which we'll find ourselves in with the Olympics. That's what we're doing in ensuring that this is occurring. The pocket translators are distributed to our front-line officers across the country today.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Today?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes, and the mousepads as well.

In terms of the training, the telephone training continues to happen. We have language trainers on-site at Vancouver airport as well, working with the front-line staff, and they are there to help staff who are already bilingual to retain and improve in anticipation of the Olympics. Obviously, what will happen after that is those skills will remain with these officers. There's a legacy to the Olympics that is wonderful for all of us.

We also have a lot of online training that is available and is well marketed to staff.

So I think those are the key areas that we're looking at right now to increase training.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Will you continue these after the Olympics, though, because I think that would be beneficial?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

That's fantastic. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Mr. Godin, and then I think Mr. D'Amours wants to add something.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chair, when the official government starts giving credit to the official languages commissioner, I get worried. I'm not saying that he doesn't do a good job, but it seems to me that everything is fine and dandy in his reports, whereas people who land at the airport can't even get service in their own language. And then this lady uses her time to commend people on the work being done. In any case, people will be able to judge for themselves.

Concerning the inspection process, do you have a program that allows you to determine what service ordinary travellers receive, or do you rely solely on complaints? Do you check the customs counters yourselves?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

There is some self-evaluation, and the commissioner visits our arrival gates quite regularly.