Official Languages Committee on Oct. 20th, 2009

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes, absolutely.

In short, you would like to know how many bilingual positions, or bilingual agents, there are in the Quebec region.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

There are crossing points at Saint-Bernard-de-Lacolle and Jackman, that is, Armstrong. These are the two main crossing points and there is a third one, which I cannot think of right now. These entry points are considered as being bilingual. Therefore, as far as the services we provide, our region is considered as being bilingual.

You talked about unilingual regions. Which regions would you consider as being unilingual?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

In several regions in Ontario, we have many employees. On the other hand, some regions of Ontario are bilingual. The Atlantic region and the Quebec region are bilingual. The Prairies region, including Saskatchewan, Manitoba and Alberta, is unilingual. In these regions, we make an assessment during each period to take into account the minority language community in the region. Moreover, the Treasury Board and the Public Service Commission issue policies that tell us, for instance, that from a certain moment on, an office must be considered bilingual. Then we must assign bilingual employees to these offices who can offer bilingual service to travellers.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Petit.

Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do not want to interrupt the discussion, because time is short. However, with all due respect for Mr. Nadeau, I find that his last statement is not parliamentary. He accused Mr. Petit of telling lies. This is against our Standing Orders. I am asking Mr. Nadeau to apologize to Mr. Petit.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I already made a finding regarding the call to order. However, in this case, I think that this is an issue with the debate. It is normal that there should be different points of view, different interpretations among the various political parties. Hence, this is not subject to a call to order pursuant to the rules that we follow.

Therefore, we will continue with the second round.

Mr. D'Amours.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I need a quick and brief answer from both of you. You keep on using the term “an active offer”. Could you explain in 10 or 15 seconds what an active offer is?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

An active offer consists in saying to someone who comes up to our officers: “Hello, bonjour.”

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Perhaps the commissioner said that an active offer was all right.

However, just now, I mentioned my fellow citizen who asked Ms. Rodriguez why she could not pass the test in French, since she came from a francophone region. They answered that it would take too long to get the results.

You understand that this is not an active offer. It has nothing to do with the issue of active offers. This is my first point.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes, I agree.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Let me continue.

On April 27, this person came to Rigaud and, once she got there, she learned that the course in French was being offered at the same time. Then, she was told that the class in French was mainly reserved for Quebeckers.

Let me continue, and you will have an opportunity to reply.

On another occasion, during a session regarding firearms, she made a request to the teacher. Because she had taken her firearms courses in French, she did not know the English terms. She asked to be given the French notes, and they answered that because she was taking the course in English, these would be the only notes that she would be given, and that she should make do with them.

You seem to be trying to be vague in your answers, when I put specific questions. It never seems to make sense. However, I have to agree with my colleague Mr. Godin, when he says that we hear many times that everything is fine with the government services, whereas things are not going well in reality.

You said that there does not seem to be a large number of complaints. I have already mentioned, here at the Standing Committee on Official Languages, my experience at Winnipeg airport. I spoke in French twice in a row and I never got service in French. Finally, they wanted to search me manually. They could not find anyone who spoke French. You may think that this is funny, but it should make you think. I did not file a complaint, although I should have, and should file one today. I tried to make my request in French, but it was impossible. Before going through the search, I wanted to hear what I was being told in French. Finally, they found someone within the entire group of employees. The gentleman, very kindly asked me “would it be all right with you if we gave you a massage?” I knew that this would make you smile. But you do understand that there was a big difference between what I should have gotten as a result and what was being offered to me.

After looking at the series of events, we are told that there is no problem. Nevertheless, in practice, there is a problem. When a problem comes up like the one that came up during the firearms course, why are people told that these are the only notes that they will get, and that they should make do with them?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

We would rather not receive any complaints. We would rather there be no problems and that no mistakes were ever made with regard to service to employees, candidates, Canadians and travellers. That being said, perfection is unattainable.

In the cases you mentioned, mistakes were made. The behaviours involved go against our policies, as well as what we teach in Rigaud, and also against the policies we promote within our organization.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

If you're telling me that it was a mistake and that you don't promote that kind of behaviour, are you willing, today, to immediately re-register that person into the next French class in Rigaud? You've just confirmed everything I said, namely that mistakes were made. If indeed that is the case, are you willing to immediately re-register that person into a French class?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

No, not in light of the facts as they were presented here this morning. We need to investigate the case. If you would like to raise this matter in particular with me, I would be pleased to hear you out. However, in this context, your request is not a reasonable one.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Unless I'm mistaken, the official languages commissioner checked to see whether an active offer had been made: "Oui, yes, bonjour, hello".

However, everything else—that is, the training in Rigaud and, previous to that, the pre-training in Fredericton—was not evaluated.

[Pierre Paquet]

If I may respond to that: No.

The Office of the Commissioner conducted a fairly in-depth investigation. We held three telephone conferences. The investigator went to Rigaud for a visit. I can say that we spent perhaps 10 hours being questioned by the investigator, and he asked the same questions you raised.

As for the francophone recruit who chose to register for an English class, if that person had asked for training materials in French, we would have given her a complete series of training materials.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Can you explain why—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. D'Amours.

We will continue with Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I hope we can all calm down, Mr. Chairman.

A little earlier, you said that in some parts of Canada, service was provided in English only, whereas it should be provided in both languages everywhere.

I personally travel a lot. I've been a member of Parliament for 16 years. I've been everywhere. I've transited through many of Canada's airports. I've always been well served in Quebec and Montreal, because that's where most of the staff is bilingual. However, in Ottawa, it has happened that I've come back from a trip, on which there were ministers as well, and I could not be served in French, even though Ottawa is the seat of Parliament. That is unacceptable.

In Toronto, it's the same thing. In Toronto, I was treated like a pariah or, as we like to say in Quebec, like a dog in a bowling alley, just because there was no bilingual service. So, there are still serious and deep-seated problems.

You said that 20 complaints had been made. If we dug a little deeper, if we scratch the surface, I am sure that we would see that the number of complaints is 100 times higher. Some people don't complain because they are afraid to do so, don't have time or don't know it's even an option. There might be several reasons why people don't complain, but, in my view, this is unacceptable.

I would even say that Mr. Fraser is very concerned about your work with VANOC to ensure that during the Olympic Games—at which time you will welcome many, many people—services will be available in both languages 24 hours a day. Flights will be taking off and landing day and night. If you provide bilingual services during the day and in the evening, but if there are none available at night, what will you do with those travellers—send them home again? Either that, or they will be in for an unpleasant surprise when they arrive.

In my view, you have a huge task before you. Further, there's no way that services will be provided in English only, as is the case in Alberta. I don't really understand. There are francophone tourists in every Canadian province; they will come from everywhere, and they must have the option to be served in either official language.

It's not normal, and I would like some answers.

[Camille Therriault-Power]

As for planning the Olympic Games, we are addressing the issue on several fronts. We will post 43 bilingual officers in the Pacific region at entry points along the border and in our airports.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Will they be on duty 24 hours a day?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

Yes. Travellers will always have access to bilingual services during the Olympic Games in Vancouver.

Further, many flights from abroad will go through Toronto. We are working closely with our Toronto airport employees. We even have a language training officer on site to help train our officers.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

How many bilingual officers will be on duty in Toronto?

[Camille Therriault-Power]

I can get that information for you, since I don't have it with me now.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That would be important to know because Toronto is a hub. Many flights coming in from Europe, Asia or elsewhere land in Toronto, and travellers have to pass customs and security. That's where you have to focus your efforts, where you need additional staff because people won't necessarily be flying directly into Vancouver.