Official Languages Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Minister, the fact nevertheless remains that these organizations had a right to file an application, which means that the money was available for the following year.

I'd like to go back to another point. You say that the multi-year agreements are a good thing and that you have to give them priority. How can you explain, then, the problems of the organizations that have multi-year agreements? A few weeks ago, one organization met with us. It had a three-year agreement, two years fixed, plus an option year.

Why was the third year hell for them and why was everything delayed? If they had a multi-year agreement, why wasn't it simply complied with?

[Hubert Lussier, Director General, Official Languages Support Programs, Department of Canadian Heritage]

I want to tell you that there wasn't any multi-year agreement that overlapped with the new year. I know exactly the situation you're referring to.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

We'll send you that information.

[Hubert Lussier]

In actual fact, the 25% has all been paid out. If there are any situations where organizations have not received the payments they were expecting, I'm prepared to check, but I'm virtually certain that this is an incomplete file problem. If you're thinking of the same organization as I am, I know it was late in providing the documents.

[Jean-Claude D'Amours, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Lussier, I'm not thinking of any organization in particular, but the majority of these people are volunteers.

Ms. Zarac, I'll leave you the few remaining moments.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Minister, when I heard your speech, I wondered whether you had been informed of the agenda, which concerned the delays. You talked to us about the Olympics and new programs.

Talking about the Olympics, I'm going to take this opportunity. You said that Mr. Fraser was quite pleased with the funding received in September. He told us that as well here.

However, we're talking about delays, and this is a good example of a delay. Mr. Fraser is pleased with the amount received, yes, but he requested additional funding in his January report. This is another example of Canadian Heritage's slow pace. I'm pleased you mentioned it.

I congratulate you for taking part in round tables. You're the first minister to do so. On October 1, Marie-France Kenny, president of the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada, appeared before the committee. She said that the organizations receiving funding from the Department of Canadian Heritage could not carry out their missions and that the government was therefore unable to meet its obligations toward francophone citizens.

I'd like to have your comments on that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Unfortunately, Ms. Zarac, all the time has been used up.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

My comment on that is simply that I don't agree.

However, on your first point on the Olympic Games, the reason...

That will remain a mystery.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We'll move on to Ms. Guay.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I was thinking she hadn't spoken for five minutes, but they shared their time. I understand.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to make a suggestion. You check the time. Perhaps it would be important for you to warn us a few seconds before we finish so we have the chance to hear the answer. That would be important for us because we don't see the time pass. That's just a suggestion.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

I hope that won't be part of my time. We're restarting the clock.

Minister, I'm pleased to meet you for the first time in committee.

This situation has considerable impact on the organizations. We know it, we feel it and we see it everywhere on the ground. People come to see me at my riding office. We often receive people who come to see us directly so that we can pass on their complaints about the lack of funding, in particular. I've seen lay-offs and I've seen people use their credit cards. It makes no sense; it's unacceptable.

Some way should also be found to reimburse them for the interest they have had to pay out of their pockets. You'll have to take an in-depth look at that. I don't know how you'll do it, but find a way. This isn't a new problem. It's been going on since 1973-1975. We're talking about 30 or 35 years that these organizations have been fighting for funding. It makes no sense.

I'm pleased to hear that there will be multi-year agreements. However, something troubles me a great deal. Some organizations file applications for $10,000, $15,000 or $20,000, and others request $500,000.

Is there any difference between the two from a red tape standpoint? Can you answer briefly because I don't have a lot of time.

[Judith LaRocque]

There are grants and contributions. The grants involve tonnes of paperwork; it's extensive, it's complex and it represents large amounts.

As the minister said earlier, we're going to increase the threshold from $30,000 to $50,000 for grants. Grants represent 70% of applications and require very little paperwork.

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

That answers my question.

This is important because the organizations tell us they spend an enormous amount of time on paperwork and often don't have the staff to do it or sometimes aren't able to complete the documents. In fact, we very often help them complete the forms ourselves.

You talked about the Olympic Games. I'm very pleased that you've invested $1.7 million, except that, minister, we're barely 100 days away from the Olympic Games, and it's not true that it's going to take place perfectly in both official languages. We see how things are going in certain small towns around Vancouver. I'm not talking about Whistler, where it's been bilingual for a very long time; young Quebeckers go there to work during the winter. What's happening in the neighbouring villages is different, and the people don't all live in Vancouver. That won't be the case for the athletes, perhaps, but visitors will wind up more outside the city.

First, this matter isn't resolved. What are you going to do to advance this issue much more quickly? Mr. Fraser, the Commissioner of Official Languages, is concerned. VANOC also has concerns. What will we look like on the international stage if we, in Canada, a supposedly bilingual country, can't offer services in both official languages at the Olympic Games?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I want to tell you that the Olympic and Paralympic Games will be absolutely respectful of the two official languages. We wouldn't want there to be any situations in which French is not completely respected outside Quebec.

In response to Ms. Zarac's question, we've made investments to that end. The reason why we've made additional investments is that Graham Fraser himself was conducting his investigation into this and he gave us some information. It's also because Ms. LaRocque and other officials work on a team with representatives of all levels of government, and they wanted to get information. We didn't want to wind up in a situation where we made... additional this month—

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Moore.

Even this $1.7 million won't be enough.

I'm going to leave you on a final note. One resident of the municipality where I live, who is francophone and whose second language is English, was denied work at the Olympic Games because she wasn't bilingual enough. You're going to be hearing about her because she's going to file a complaint.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Work as a volunteer?

[Monique Guay, Bloc, Rivière-du-Nord, QC]

Yes, as a volunteer.

It's utterly unacceptable, when there's a big shortage of volunteers, that a person who offers her services on a volunteer basis and wants to travel to the Olympic Games at her own expense, is denied work because they don't think her English is good enough. She still speaks both languages.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

I want to answer that important question. The way VANOC chooses volunteers is not our business. We want everyone who wishes to take part as a volunteer in the Olympic Games—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

Let me finish, Mr. Chairman.

We've heard all the concerns that were expressed by this committee, by the Standing Senate Committee, by VANOC, by Graham Fraser and by individuals. We did our homework on each of those concerns. We put a price on those concerns and we “delivered the goods”, the necessary funding to resolve these situations, in the best possible way.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Merci, Madame.

We will now turn to Ms. O'Neill-Gordon.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

And thank you, Minister, for being with us this morning—and a special welcome to all the officials.

We know the Department of Canadian Heritage has taken steps to change things, for example, to have more multi-year agreements, and I say that Canadians really appreciate this.

Do you think enough efforts have been made over the last year to change this situation?

[James Moore, Conservative, Port Moody—Westwood—Port Coquitlam, BC]

The concerns that have been raised in the media, that have been brought forward to this committee, to the Senate committee, directly to our department, directly to me as I've done round tables across the country, have all been listened to very carefully by our government. We've put in place a number of reforms that we think will ensure the situation will improve.

There's no one approach, where you can come in as a government or as a minister and say you have the absolute solution, this will be put in place, and you can guarantee that there will not be any extreme circumstances in which somebody will be disappointed with how the process works. The process of government is a constant process of trial and error. You do your best to make sure the situation improves. Listening to Treasury Board, listening to people on the ground, listening to this committee, listening to Graham Fraser--that's my job.

I was appointed Minister of Official Languages a year ago, and in the process of doing the round tables, going around the country, we listened to people, we heard their concerns, and we've put in place a number of reforms that we think will improve the situation, including guaranteeing the 25%, putting cash up front so that those organizations that have a track record of being accountable and effective in providing services to Canadians will have that money advanced more quickly next year than it has been in the past. That money will be approved. We're streamlining the processes.

Often the case in government is that there have been abuses in government departments in the past, in previous governments, and you learn from that. Often you put in place processes that don't fit certain organizations, that don't fit certain portfolios as well as they might fit others. So you learn from that; you recognize the errors of the past and you improve the situation.

One thing I want to make sure that Canadians don't take away from this committee meeting as they're watching or listening on television, and perhaps reading the transcripts, is to think that because there are some circumstances where some groups have had a very tough time because of the lag time between application and receiving money, there's a pan-Canadian crisis of funding for official languages. Our government has increased funding for official languages by 20%--$1.1 billion over five years. We're spending more money than any government in Canadian history to protect, promote, and celebrate Canada's official languages. It's more money than ever before, and more money is going to more organizations than ever before.

We need to make sure the money is being spent efficiently and effectively. We don't want to have delays in the process that cause organizations to suffer, and we're trying to fix it as best we can.