Official Languages Committee on Nov. 3rd, 2009

[MGen J.P.Y.D. Gosselin]

Yes. In fact, we're working toward improvement to a certain degree, but it wouldn't necessarily be an advantage in certain cases, however. Let's take the example of a basic mechanics course and a lower level course. If the course is given in English, for example, by a master corporal who has the technical expertise, there would be no benefit to us in ensuring that all instructors are bilingual, particularly when we are short of them and we need some elsewhere. Ideally, yes, but in practice, it isn't done. In practice, we have the number we need to teach in both official languages.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I'm trying to understand. I'm starting off from the principle that, if we're able to have bilingual generals and officers, why not instructors? You don't think that would be advantageous. I think that it could; you could shift the instructors. It's important for them to be bilingual because these courses, as in the example you gave, are not just offered to anglophones.

[MGen J.P.Y.D. Gosselin]

You're right. Ideally, I would like all the schools to be completely bilingual, but in practice—

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

It's a wish, but a wish can become an objective. Couldn't that be one of your objectives? Is that what you are considering for the future?

[MGen J.P.Y.D. Gosselin]

I'm going to hand over to Colonel Meloche because that question is related more to the official languages policy.

[Col J.P.L. Meloche]

Yes. I think you have to put things into perspective. Saying that it would be desirable for all instructors at the national schools to be bilingual is one thing, but saying it's achievable in spite of the way in which people are posted, the operational tempo, etc., is another.

In addition, some courses are given exclusively in French and others exclusively in English. So putting bilingual people in duties in which they will teach only one course in English or in French means that a given bilingual person may not have a bilingual position elsewhere where that person could be in a better position to serve the institution.

To go back to the point raised by General Semianiw, that's why the commanders are accountable. When functions are designated, we do the rounds. The commanders have to ensure they have the necessary staff, with the necessary language capability, to deliver the goods. Here, for example, you have two commanders: Colonel Hamel and Lieutenant-Colonel Whelan. They have to ensure they have a core of instructors, with the required language skills, to deliver the goods they're asked to deliver.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I understand your point of view because a cost is always linked to that, but, to be as efficient as possible, can you easily respond to requests in a manner that is respectful of the official languages?

[Col J.P.L. Meloche]

I'm going to let the school commanders answer.

[MGen J.P.Y.D. Gosselin]

We currently don't have any difficulty. We're trying to increase the number of instructors. We've found other methods to assist us. In some cases, for example, we specifically lacked bilingual francophone instructors. So we took one of the courses in which we had a bilingual instructor and we gave the contract to another college, a technical college, so that the instructor could give the course in French. So we used various methods to mitigate the problem we had.

We're always trying to increase the bilingual workforce. A number of efforts have been made in the past two years. I was talking with Colonel Whelan. His workforce has increased: 60% of his instructors are now bilingual. He offers a lot of flexibility with regard, for example, to leave, operational deployments, depending on courses in French or in English. Sometimes two groups of francophone recruits arrive. Sometimes there are four recruit courses. Ideally, we want more, so that we can have more flexibility.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Do I have any time left?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Your time is up, Ms. Zarac.

We'll continue on with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

In the fall of 2006, the ombudsman, Mr. Côté, filed a rather damning report in which he pointed out numerous problems for francophones seeking services in their language at Borden. Even the base chiefs acknowledged that it was difficult to provide services in French. I'm going to name you a few: I won't read you the entire report:

[...] a refusal to offer English second-language courses to francophone recruits; an incitement to change trades when documents in French are not available; lack of second-language skills among instructors who interact with unilingual francophone recruits; the risk of ostracism if francophone recruits dared to ask for services in French. Many of the francophone recruits do not feel welcome, which aggravates the sense of isolation they feel being far away from their families in a unilingual anglophone region.

I'll conclude by citing a remark by Mr. Côté:

The onus should not be on [unilingual] recruits to understand a language with which they are unfamiliar, but on the institution to ensure that recruits are fully able to communicate in the official language they understand.

That was three years go.

You're telling me that Borden is paradise on earth for these people. Understand that this is a very significant comment. I didn't write it. When it came out in the media, you can understand why it was the subject of a meeting here. We met with Mr. Côté, and so on.

I want to know what the situation is today for a unilingual recruit—or one who has very little knowledge of English—who comes from Acadia, from Quebec or elsewhere and who goes to Borden and wants to be a soldier in the Canadian armed forces. Do they still suffer this ostracism?

[MGen J.P.Y.D. Gosselin]

Thank you for that question and thank you for the opportunity to address the points that were raised by the ombudsman at the time.

When I spoke to this committee nearly two years ago, we were just starting. I had just taken command of the academy four months earlier. It was one of my two essential priorities. In the more than two years that I have been commanding the academy, I have visited Borden more than 12 times, nearly every other month. Every time, I request a report on progress in relation to the strategic plan that was developed at the time and that we are continuing to implement.

I'm going to ask the colonel to take a minute or two to explain to you what has happened.

We've made a lot of progress to ensure that people understand their language rights as soon as they arrive at their course, to ensure that there is a mechanism in place to receive complaints concerning bilingualism, to give priority to courses so that francophones don't wait a lot time to gain access to their courses.

Between plates 13 and 26 which I've submitted to you, there is a series of our achievements in the past two years, of which we are truly proud. We conducted surveys to determine how people perceived the efforts made. The results compared to the first poll originally conducted by the ombudsman are impressive. We're satisfied, but we want more; we want to achieve even more. I've taken what we did at Borden, the transformation plan, and I've transposed it to Saint-Jean. Elements of the plan were even taken by the director of official languages to determine which elements should be transposed within the Canadian Forces. We learned a number of lessons at Borden. It isn't perfect, but compared to the situation in the fall of 2006, we've made a lot of progress.

[Col J.J.R.G. Hamel]

Mr. Chairman, I want to add that progress takes time. One of the things we achieved in August 2007 was a strategic plan for official languages at Borden that is for a number of years. We identified shortcomings, but we're making exemplary progress. I'm going to cite a few examples for you.

When new members of the forces, recruits, for example, who have just finished their training at Saint-Jean or permanent civilian or military members arrive at CFB Borden, they are informed for their official languages rights and responsibilities. That's also kept in their file, and they have to sign the form.

Earlier we were talking about plans and material. We said that the courses we offer at Borden are not all bilingual, in the chosen language of the students who go there. But it's a plan. Our strategic plan provides that, as of September 1, 2012, all courses given at Borden will be offered in the chosen language of the members of the Canadian Forces taking them. To achieve that, we have to translate the plans of certain courses that are currently being offered.

The question was previously asked as to whether the new course plans are translated immediately? When we conduct a trial of a new course plan, it's translated. We don't wait to conduct a trial with students before translating it; we do it immediately. As for the other courses we are currently offering, before they are improved or changed, they are handed over to the Translation Bureau, and that takes time.

With that, I'd like to mention that our translation plan at Borden has more than doubled. We have invested up to $1.6 million in translation. This is done at a number of levels: the new course plans and the old ones. All that is being done to meet our deadline of September 1, 2012.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much. We can supplement that later.

We'll continue on with Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, gentlemen.

I am delighted to heard what you're telling us today. I am pleasantly surprised to see all the efforts you are making. I would also like, for one rare time, to hail Mr. Nadeau, of the Bloc Québécois, who is asking the federal government to invest in National Defence. That's always a pleasure to hear.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Translation!

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I said that because it was too easy.

I have three questions, the first one of which is for Mr. Meloche. How long have you been working to solve the official languages problems?

[Col J.P.L. Meloche]

I've been working on it since July 2007.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

A lot of things have been done since then.

[Col J.P.L. Meloche]

The Transformation Model has been in effect since April 2007. Since July 2007, with a renewed team, we've put a lot of effort into drafting and introducing the policies underlying our work. The review of the linguistic designation of Canadian Forces units is another tool through which we can determine the units' language of work.

There has also been a major awareness campaign so that people know their rights. It's all well and good to talk about leadership, but we're adopting what we call a two-envelope military strategy. Leadership is important—that's obvious—but, with a dynamic awareness campaign, people are able to know their rights. If they know them, they'll exercise them and they'll demand them. So we're moving forward.

The third model aim was the performance measurement system. We have established indicators and we're putting the pilot project in place.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

So you've come a long way.

[Col J.P.L. Meloche]

We started with the model and we've built on it. The model was the general strategic orientation, but, from there, action had to be taken, concrete measures.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

The other question is for Mr. Whelan or Mr. Gosselin. Among your recruits, are there still, in 2009, any members of your units, people who resist learning either of Canada's official languages? If so, how do you make them understand that bilingualism is very important? These are Canada's two official languages, and you should be able to speak your own language, but also to switch to the other language.