Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2009

[François Charbonneau]

That indeed raises a number of challenges, that you have clearly expressed.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Mr. Nadeau would like to speak to complete the round.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I believe that Mr. Pelletier and Mr. Charbonneau would be excellent deputy ministers. The mere fact that they're already bilingual would correct the deficiency rightly pointed out by Mr. Godin.

I would like to ask Mr. Charbonneau a more basic question. I don't know whether Mr. d'Entremont is still President of Université Sainte-Anne. Whatever the case may be, I met him a few years ago, and he spoke to me about one of his fears. Since Université Sainte-Anne is a French-language university in Church Point, in southern Nova Scotia, many immersion students enroll in it, students from Yarmouth, Pubnico and southern Nova Scotia. That institution was to compete with other university institutions in Nova Scotia, of which there are 10, I believe. The words he used struck me. He was afraid that the Université Sainte-Anne might become a big high school for anglophones who want to learn French at university.

This is a small Acadian institution with a rich history; if offers courses in its own selected fields. However, it finds itself in a situation in which the surrounding community is becoming anglophone, and the French aspect of the university is being lost. It is somewhat like, on another scale, the Université Laval becoming an anglophone campus if the majority of its students ever came from the anglophone world.

We want to train anglophones in small institutions in very anglophone environments. Those institutions are trying to make do as best they can to keep the Acadian character of the place.

Doesn't this challenge present a danger for these small institutions?

[François Charbonneau]

That's obviously a challenge. We have to do a real balancing act so as not to fall into the situation you describe. French Canadian university institutions have made the choice to open their doors to all those from the majority who have the merit of wanting to learn in French. To my knowledge, no university has chosen to restrict itself to a target population. All those who want to learn and take the courses that are given are welcome at our institutions.

In some cases, the segment of anglophones who come from the immersion side is essential to the survival of those institutions. It's a challenge to ensure that French life is maintained, as francophones tend to be polite and switch to English. This requires efforts to create awareness. However, the doors of the institutions are open to enable them to meet that challenge. In any case, these places where there is a francophone majority, apart from Quebec's institutions, make it easier to learn the second language.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

That completes our business.

Mr. Petit hasn't yet had an opportunity to speak and would like to do so. If committee members agree, we could let him go ahead.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

How much time may I have?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Two or three minutes.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Two or three minutes, no more?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

It doesn't trouble me if we give him five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ask your questions and we'll see.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I wouldn't want to give him 10 or 15 minutes, but five minutes, like the others.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you. You see how the committee works well.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

We're going to fight for you, Mr. Petit.

[An hon. member]

You're going to owe them.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I'm not sure they'll be pleased to have let me speak after this.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Charbonneau and Mr. Pelletier, thank you for coming to meet with us.

I saw you in Toronto, when we visited your centre. That was where I learned that there were 192,000 francophones in Toronto and that the second language was Chinese, no longer French, as a result of which the questions we asked you were very strange.

Coming back to you, Mr. Charbonneau. I come from Quebec, and my children have studied in Alberta. They are Franco-Albertans. My four children attended primary school, and English was not systematically taught. In some public colleges, English was even literally banished. At one time—my children are in their thirties—people took a very dim view of English. So I know both system.

My children then attended private teaching institutions. There was an improvement, but there was still a lot of reluctance. Then we went to live in Alberta, and they attended the École Saint-Jean, which subsequently became the Faculté Saint-Jean. As a member of the Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne, you know that we managed to have that school become a faculty.

In that place, the funding that the Edmonton School Board allocates to francophones exceeds, on a population basis, the funding that certain Quebec school commissions allocate to francophones. We're always told that Alberta is rich, but I believe that political decisions also come into play.

I'll bring you back to Quebec. You saw what they did on the other side. In Quebec, everything falls under provincial jurisdiction. The message that must be sent to the provinces—and on this point, I agree with Mr. Rodriguez—on the subject of second language instruction in a minority situation is that we have no control over the funding allocated for that purpose. The provincial government receives the funding and, in some cases, we try to see whether it's correct.

I wonder about Quebec. If English is virtually swept under the carpet at the primary and secondary levels, students will have a problem when they start professional or college studies because there's no training. The situation is even worse at the university level: there are second-language illiterates. We can tell you a lot of things, but if the basics aren't working, it serves no purpose.

Mr. Charbonneau, you who represent the Association des universités de la francophonie canadienne, can you suggest to us what we could do to enable students to continue their studies in their second language at francophone universities? In Quebec's francophone universities, the same difficulty arises for English as a second language. Some universities, like McGill University, are anglophone first of all and have trouble teaching French as a second language.

What do we do now?

[François Charbonneau]

Quebec universities have their own association, the CREPUQ. I can't speak on behalf of the Quebec universities.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Chairman, may I rise on a point of order or request clarification?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I recognize you, Ms. Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

What Mr. Petit has just said is completely false. I taught in the public education system in Quebec for 30 years. I'm sorry, but it's not true that students there don't learn English. Mr. Petit has confused primary and postsecondary education.

That's the point I wanted to make, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Ms. Bourgeois, that is not a point of order.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Then ask Pauline Marois. So stop exaggerating.