Official Languages Committee on March 12th, 2009

[Yves Chouinard]

A community college doesn't just aim to provide instruction. If you want the community to take an interest in the institution, you have to do more, but that takes resources. If you don't do that, the anglophone college, which is making the same approach to the community, will take an interest in the community and will invite it. It has the resources to do so, and, in that case, the community will automatically move toward it. We've seen the results of the school community centres. They've led the community into the institution. I did it in Campbellton, which is a 50% anglophone town. We have a francophone institution. We invited the community, and today the college is a community institution, but if we had merely taught a few courses and sent professors and students back home in the evenings, the institution would probably be dead today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Chouinard and Mr. D'Amours.

Mr. Chong, go ahead please.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is for the representative of the Canadian Association of Second-Language Teachers.

All my cousins in Asia can speak two or three languages, and my cousins in Europe can speak two or three languages. Here in Canada, an officially bilingual country at the federal level, the vast majority of students are not bilingual. I find that quite ironic.

It's an irony, and despite all the attempts by various governments to try to address this, we don't seem to be going in the right direction.

The Government of Canada introduced the action plan on official languages about five years ago. We are halfway through that action plan, and it has been renewed. Over its lifetime, about $2 billion will have been poured into second language instruction and instruction for minority language communities.

One of the goals of this action plan was to double the number of students between the ages of 15 and 19 who were functional in the other official language. My understanding is that halfway through this action plan we are not going to meet that target. Why is that?

[John Erskine]

There are probably many factors. One of the factors is even as fundamental as knowing what we mean by “functionally bilingual”, which is where our focus on the cadre came into place.

Another factor is that it's a real battle to even keep kids in French until they get to that age level, because there are all sorts of other pressures and reasons why they do not continue with French. One is that they don't see a future in it. If you have schools that don't even offer it in some jurisdictions, it means there's no impetus to continue. They don't know what to do if they want to continue in French at the university and college levels; there are no opportunities to do that, or limited opportunities; the opportunities are there but they're not aware of them; or they don't see it as a viable alternative. So we need to let kids know what is available and then increase the possibilities to continue.

[Nicole Thibault]

The whole allophone population is most open to learning a second language. When we say that French immersion programs are booming in British Columbia, most of the students enrolled in those classes are of Asian background because the parents value multiple-language learning. They've come to Canada with the concept that they want to learn both official languages, and they enrol their children in immersion programs right away. They're learning English in the community, etc.

The other interesting little comment is that the Alliance Française is saying that it's mostly allophone students who are taking classes across the country. That's what it's really seeing in their population.

There are two things here that are positive. We will have a more diverse population in Canada in the future, so I think they will embrace bilingualism more and more as we go forward. We may not meet our target of 2013--we're not anywhere close--but more and more young people see the goals of learning two languages, three languages, four languages, and that pluri-lingualism is the way of the future for Canada. So it encourages French as well.

[Michael Chong, Conservative, Wellington—Halton Hills, ON]

What do we as public policy-makers need to do to get to that goal of doubling the number of bilingual students? Is it money, allocation of resources, or a question of non-monetary solutions? What is the holdup?

[John Erskine]

One of the big challenges is having enough competent second language speakers to teach and encourage our kids. It won't happen by 2013, but the number of students choosing French, who have enough French to even consider doing that, is not very great in some of our western universities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[Nicole Thibault]

Just a different process of the protocol with the provinces.... I think there's been a lot of work toward accountability and transparency in the funds that are transferred. This last grouping has really made people say where the money is going. If we could continue in that direction it would be very helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That's very interesting indeed.

We'll finish with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'm going to continue along the lines of what Mr. Chong said in his introduction. I was born in Hawkesbury, the second largest bilingual town in Canada, and I live in the largest bilingual city in Canada, according to Statistics Canada. We read that on page 5 of today's Le Droit.

We learn French, but we catch English. That's what happens when you're in the minority. It isn't because I went to English school that that happened to me. In Gatineau, it isn't because they all went to English school either that people can speak English, but because they work in the federal public service. More often than not, they have to work in English. We had proof of that earlier. The place where I'm from is located between Montreal, the third largest bilingual city in Canada by size, and Gatineau. There's a social reality.

I have a few questions to ask about learning. Does the principal of an immersion school have to be bilingual in order to get his position?

[John Erskine]

That varies from one region to another.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

But he isn't required to be bilingual. Does that vary from province to province?

[John Erskine]

It varies from school board to school board.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right. The principal of an immersion school isn't required to understand French.

[Nicole Thibault]

He has to be a francophile.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, but that doesn't mean he speaks French.

[Nicole Thibault]

There aren't enough francophones or people who speak French.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Being a francophile, that—

[Nicole Thibault]

We select francophiles, but it isn't necessary that they speak French.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Being francophile means having a favourable prejudice toward French. So one can say that some school principals aren't favourably prejudiced toward French. I'm not getting an answer, but I see a nodding head in agreement.

The school boards have the power to close down classes and programs or to increase the number of students. At some point, in New Brunswick, they abolished school boards. If I'm not mistaken, that's come back. When a school is about to lose its high school immersion program, do you exercise any political pressure? Do you lobby to prevent that from happening? Do you have any influence? It's also possible that's not within your power.

[Nicole Thibault]

That's not part of our mandate. We form a professional association. The association you refer to, Canadian Parents for French, is a group that would do the lobbying.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

So the teachers don't mobilize when they see that immersion schools are going to be closed.

[Nicole Thibault]

These are our employers; so we have little leeway. We could write a letter, for example, but you mentioned lobbying. We don't have a lot of room to manoeuvre in that area.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

That's fine.

Mr. Allain and Ms. Stewart, you are representatives of a pan-Canadian Association of universities and colleges in certain provinces. I'm thinking of this region. There is Carleton University, the Université Saint-Paul, the University of Ottawa, the UQO and the École d'extension of the UNAM in Canada. So there are five universities. When there are conflicts among those universities, over student recruitment, for example, do you look into the matter? I suppose student recruitment is the universities' bread and butter. Is that a situation you look into?