Official Languages Committee on April 22nd, 2010

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I don't want to spend too much time on the issue but, like most of my colleagues, I really enjoyed the meetings I had with some of you. Consultation is very useful, but we're not talking about consultation here. I think that all those around this table will agree with me when I say that public consultation is much broader than what we're dealing with.

I'm surprised to hear you talk so much about governance, because it is one of the five goals of the Roadmap.

Today, we talked a lot about this governance issue.

In the Roadmap, $33 million are set aside for governance. I would like to mention a few of the numbers I found in this paper. Some $2.5 million is to be spent to set up an ongoing consultation process, which doesn't seem to have been done. Then, $13.5 million has been set aside for the Horizontal Accountability and Coordination Framework, though nothing seems to have been done there either. Finally, $17 million has been earmarked for a Centre of Excellence to promote accountability. I wonder where all of that money has gone?

You mentioned that you had trouble getting the numbers, results, and finding out where the money has gone. I suppose that's going to be part of the questions you'll ask us, as Mr. Bélanger has asked. I personally think that it's extremely important that we find out where that money has gone. You said that you visited the Web site and that you only found publicity. You found no data that would explain how that money has been spent. But governance is one of the priorities of the Roadmap.

Heritage Canada and Official Languages Canada say that they are quite willing to review the Horizontal Management and Accountability Framework. On the other hand, they refuse to meet with you. You've told us that you asked to meet with the minister after the Speech from the Throne. What can you add to this?

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

As for the Speech from the Throne, I'd like to point out that this is a completely different file. As for my group, nobody's ever refused to meet with us. We've always been able to meet with people, but sometimes it can take an awful lot of time.

They might process us a little.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You were told to come and meet with the committee.

[Sylvia Martin-Laforge]

For committee work, we're here and we're happy to be here. I think what is important is the notion of outreach.

For the English-speaking community, we are in Montreal. The issue is on our access and our potential to come to Ottawa regularly.

This is all to do with fact that we are in Montreal. When we have to travel, it is expensive. And when we plan to travel, we have to make sure that it is done in the most efficient and productive way possible.

So it is more helpful if departments and ministers invite us in for consultation. It's the notion of outreach, and not just once a year. Things happen throughout the year. You have to have an outreach strategy. For English-speaking communities of Quebec, if you think there is maybe a problem, then maybe the impact of the Official Languages Act is not working as well in Quebec as somewhere else.

For the moment, in terms of our evolution, you would think there would be a bigger initiative around outreach. I can tell you there is no perceived significant outreach strategy to the English-speaking community of Quebec--like how we are different, how we can speak to you. I'll give you an example of the dialogue days. In Quebec we're not structured as well because of history, because of structure money. We don't have certain structures, so for us to go to that day it's a little more complicated to bring people in. We have to figure it out. To bring 33 people to that dialogue day the other day, my structure is not capable of doing the same thing. I can't just bring 32 of my members in, because for it to be really good for the department and beneficial for all of us, I have to figure out, if there are 40 people to come, who should be there. Where are my strong sectors? Where are my weak sectors?

I must have spent a week talking to people, bringing them in, making them understand what official languages are--I called it my Love Boat connection. That is very time-consuming. When we talk about asymmetry or we talk about a different perception in Quebec, we have to consider that. For us, the outreach strategy for Quebec has to be considered differently.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

Thank you.

Ms. Zarac, you have the floor.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Mr. Chair, may I set the record straight? Heritage Canada never refused to meet with us. We may occasionally be sent to meet with a deputy minister because of the urgency of an issue, but we cannot say that we have trouble getting access to Heritage Canada.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

Mr. Chair, if I may...

I am sorry to have used the term refuse. You mentioned the minister had told you to meet with the committee when you asked to meet with the minister himself. That is what I seem to have understood.

[Marie-France Kenny]

That was not us. Maybe our colleagues but not us.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

We will go on with Mr. Généreux.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our witnesses for coming today.

We really have a wonderful linguistic duality in Canada. Ms. Kenny, you have an English name and you speak French very well. And Ms. Martin-Laforge, you speak English very well. This was simply a comment.

Ms. Kenny, when you mention the information that you can and cannot find on the Web site, are you talking about financial data dealing with the programs or the programs themselves?

[Marie-France Kenny]

I was talking about the programs....

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

You were referring to the programs?

[Marie-France Kenny]

Exactly, the programs and financial information, for example what is going to be invested, when, and where the information dealing with official languages could be found. Are these amounts going to be invested in these projects under the Roadmap? We have to try and read between the lines!

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

And if I understand correctly that is the same thing for all departments.

[Marie-France Kenny]

Yes, every single department. And that is the problem. Maybe this information is somewhere, but there are no clear indicated as to where it can be found, whether is under the Roadmap or under official languages...

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I am just trying to understand.

[Marie-France Kenny]

divided by year, by project...

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

There are funds linked to various programs and you say that you cannot know in advance how much money will be available for this program or another. So for you it is difficult to plan or...

[Marie-France Kenny]

It is difficult to make plans, that is the problem.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Very well.

I am the type of person who loves to dialogue for all sorts of reasons. Dialogue is very important, anyway, and this morning the dialogue we have had seems to be very positive even though we may not agree on everything. That being said, when you mentioned a transparent consultation structure, what would this be in an ideal world?

[Marie-France Kenny]

As to consultation, it must mean, first, that we will indeed be consulted, and second, we would like be told how our opinion was taken into account. It is easy, I could consult someone until the cows come home, and still come up with my own...

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Yes, but let's be precise.

[Marie-France Kenny]

That is what I mean.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Let's choose any program.

[Marie-France Kenny]

This is what we want, for you to consult us and then take into account what we told you when you design a program. In fact, you do not have to do everything we suggest. But tell us how you took into account what we suggested.