Evidence of meeting #19 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was school.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
So it will be a public document.
Now I'm going to turn to the students. Kelly and Miguel both clearly said that, to integrate into the Ottawa community, schools should teach them not only French, but English as well. I don't remember whether Andrea said the same thing, but I'd like to have her comments on that subject.
Could you explain your situation to us in greater detail? How did you discover you had to speak both languages to really integrate into your community and school?
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
I arrived in Canada in grade 6, I believe. I was attending a French-language school, but we mainly used English, and I didn't understand that language at all. Even though the students spoke French at school, outside the school, it was always in English. I spoke French, but they answered me in English. So I understood that, if I wanted to integrate into the school and have friends, I had to learn English.
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
I left Burundi to go to Belgium. From Belgium, I came to Canada.
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam
In fact, I understood that it was absolutely necessary to speak English because we only heard English in the halls. As Kelly said, when you speak French, people answer you in English. That isn't very easy. For example, if you're part of a group of people and you're only speaking French, you have to listen to what they say, but they don't speak French. It's hard to follow the conversation and to fit into the group.
Newcomers who speak French are often forced to group together. Integration therefore isn't so easy because they're always with each other, since they understand each other. There's no real contact with others. When we come here, we shouldn't remain amongst ourselves; we have to be able to do things, think like the people here and know the ideologies from here.
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
Miguel Cédric Tchuemboum Kouam
I'm from Cameroon, which is essentially bilingual, like Canada, but where the minority is anglophone.
Liberal
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
It's virtually the same as what they said. When you speak French, they answer you in English.
Liberal
Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON
I'll stop you. You say that, when you speak to them in French, they answer you in English. Who is “they”?
Liberal
Student, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
Yes, the students at the school.
Sometimes I do the same thing because sometimes I don't know the words in French. Now I'm better in English than French because I don't practise it often. It's also because of the accent. I have less of an accent in English than in French. So it bothers me less to speak in English, as a result of my accent.
So I speak English more often because I don't want to speak French so that people laugh at me.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you, Mr. Bélanger. Yes, it's already over.
So we'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you very much for your testimony and the information you've given us this morning.
I'm originally from Hawkesbury, in eastern Ontario. It's a very francophone town. I taught for seven years here in Ottawa, at schools that you know: Louis-Riel, Gisèle-Lalonde and De La Salle. They're part of the same system as you. Your school is part of the Catholic system, whereas those schools are public. We occasionally cross paths during sports activities, in particular.
I was also involved in after-school activities. I organized UN debating clubs—and there's still at certain schools where we did that. At Louis-Riel, where I taught, in half of cases, the children who attended the school, or their parents, hadn't been born in Canada. So when we organized the UN club, believe me, it was a real success. People got together and it was very good.
Moreover, one point was just mentioned—and I'm pleased with the students' frankness. Even for me, as a Franco-Ontarian teacher in the environment that is Ottawa, assimilation is an issue within our walls. We mustn't conceal the fact. Some tried to cover it up, to conceal it, to say that these are statistics that can't be trusted.
This is a scourge for the survival of the French language. The students who are testifying here, who themselves were francophones as a result of the fact that French was the language used to communicate, tell us that to have friends and everyday discussions in the halls, as they say, or in activities outside the classroom, you have to speak French, or else you aren't understood. This shows the Canadian cancer—that's the term I use, which may seem tough for some. We're losing French to the benefit of English, even in our French schools.
My question is for the people who are on the floor and who, as I was, are employees of a Franco-Ontarian school board. I'm speaking to Ms. Lanteigne, among others, who is a teacher—that was my alter ego at the time. What can we do to prevent assimilation in our schools?
Teacher, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
That was the purpose of my recommendations.
In my humble opinion, we can make it known categorically, across the country. We were talking about statistics. The statistics nevertheless show that demand for French in the world today has never been so great and that we won't be able to meet that demand at the rate we need.
So here we're in a minority context. We still have this minority mindset and we compare ourselves with the majority. We should view ourselves on the world stage and put our students and ourselves, as employees, in that context. I know that because I study in that field and I teach it.
To answer your question, we have to educate ourselves about what's being done today, and the French is indeed one of the most used primary languages. Mandarin and English are there. English is a commonly used language because it is the virtual language. However, in economic practice, French is also at the forefront, as are Spanish and Mandarin. So we have to make room for another mindset.
Bloc
Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC
Here we're talking about students' everyday lives, in the halls. How do we encourage students? When I was a teacher, when I walked the halls, they started speaking French, and when I went away, they went back to English. Mr. Nadeau was synonymous with French.
What spirit is encouraged? I'm also looking for solutions for the community.
Teacher, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
You have to believe in it. I was here, and then I went to other work places. The generations change in a short space of time. You belong to the same generation as I do. That's not a criticism; it's an observation. The value attached to language is not the same as for our generation.
I have in my hands a list of the different statuses of language and the meaning of language. Language has different faces. At school, it's a social language; it's what's in. Soon we'll be speaking in iPod or I don't know what. No one will understand, apart from the people who speak amongst themselves. This is a fact.
What are we doing? Some students, when they see me, will speak in French, but not necessarily. They'll speak in their native language as well. Yes, we encourage them to speak French. However, that time has passed.
You also have to know that it's better to learn a language while enriching yourself from other languages. Yes, we only hear English... I live in French; I moved so I could live in French. However, those languages don't work against each other. What's important in everyday life in the halls is to communicate in a language that can lead us all to love being here and to associate with another person in that person's language.
You asked me where I was from. That's important to know, isn't it? We're still at that point. Our vernacular is part of who we are. Where do I come from? I come from Acadia.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney
Thank you very much.
I come from Quebec City, where they say “photos”, not “phôtos”.
I'll hand over to Mr. Godin, our second vice-chair.
NDP
Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB
It's really something being with you. First of all, it's a pleasure for me. It's definitely not easy. I come from a region outside Quebec, outside Ontario, away from here. It's as though it were outside of everything. I'm an Acadian from northeastern New Brunswick. Back home, 80% of the population is francophone. Ms. Lanteigne comes from Caraquet. It's a pleasure for me to meet you this morning, Ms. Lanteigne.
Back home in New Brunswick, one-third of the population is francophone. So the school districts had to be divided in two: the French school district and the English school district. There are always people who say that divides people, but that's not the case. That's how we've been able to save our language, because you learn French, but you catch English. You've no doubt heard that before. You learn French, you speak French in class, and you catch the other language in the hall. That's the fact of the matter. Our mandate is to see where we stand with all that and how we can go about helping you.
We are taking in immigrants here so we can increase our francophone population. We must not lose our language because we're catching English too. For you, it's in the halls; for us it's on the street, in offices, in Ottawa.
As you say, if you don't speak English, it's hard to find a job; that's the fact of the matter. You can't be a deputy minister if you don't speak English. However, you can be a deputy minister if you speak English but not French, in an officially bilingual country. It should be equal. You can be a judge on the Supreme Court of Canada if you're an anglophone, but you can't be one if you're a francophone and you don't speak English. That's the situation in our country, which we're trying to change. You have to accept the equality of the two languages. If that were the case, you would have as many chances as the others. I believe you've understood. As you said earlier, the fact that you are Canadian doesn't make it easier to get a job if you don't speak both languages.
Let's go back to your school. What could be done? It will be said that this is a provincial jurisdiction, but Ms. Desautels said a little earlier that budgets and money get a lot of things done. You can do miracles with money; you can hit peaks of $1 billion in Toronto. You can do a lot of things with money. With money and programs, couldn't we train groups to really encourage students to speak French in the halls or to find francophone friends? And I'm not talking about artificial friends. The idea is to be able to organize so-called francophone activities and to bring people together, to have money so they can take the bus, or something else. These activities would make it possible to bring together people who can spend time together and who wouldn't feel alone.
We're talking about intake. We have to determine how we can receive the people who arrive here, how they will spend the day in class, how they can enjoy themselves in the evenings and on weekends and feel good. I'd like to know your opinion on that.
Ms. Desautels, you talked about the budget.
Pastoral Officer, Collège catholique Samuel-Genest
Yes. I just want to reassure you a little by saying that we've already spoken with management. According to the board's mission, students must take five streams, including the francophone stream.
With Mr. Charette, we've already established on paper that our priority will be the francophone stream at the school next year, even though the others won't be neglected. How are we going to do that? What strategy will we adopt? We haven't entirely gotten there. However, we will increase awareness—