Evidence of meeting #30 for Official Languages in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was commissioner.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Graham Fraser  Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Ghislaine Charlebois  Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages
Johane Tremblay  Lead Counsel and Director, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

8:45 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Good morning to everyone.

Welcome to this 30th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. This morning, pursuant to Standing Order 108(3), the 2009-10 annual report, volume II, of the Commissioner of Official Languages is referred to the committee.

Today, we have the pleasure of receiving the Commissioner of Official Languages, Graham Fraser, and his team. We wish them the warmest of welcomes. He will speak to us of his annual report 2009-2010, volume II, entitled “Beyond Obligations”.

Without further ado, I would invite you, Mr. Fraser, to give your opening remarks. I will allow you to introduce your remarkable team.

8:45 a.m.

Graham Fraser Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen and members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Bonjour.

To present the findings of volume II of my fourth annual report, I'm accompanied by Sylvain Giguère, assistant commissioner of policy and communications; Ghislaine Charlebois, assistant commissioner of compliance assurance; Johane Tremblay, general counsel; and Lise Cloutier, assistant commissioner of corporate services.

This second volume of the annual report deals with federal institutions' compliance with the Official Languages Act. Most notably, it analyzes the performance of 16 federal institutions, some of which were evaluated by my office for the first time, and it provides an overall account of the complaints received by my office.

Despite the understandable reflex of wanting to compare one year or one institution to the other, the criteria for the report card exercise evolved. In particular, they take into account the evolution of jurisprudence and the different emphasis I want to put on a given part of the act. We have also put a greater focus on results rather than processes.

The results for institutions that had never been evaluated before were poor. Many federal institutions still have a lot of difficulty taking into account what I consider to be five key leadership requirements for implementing the act. I define these in the report. The result is that far too many Canadians are not obtaining federal services in the official language of their choice; federal employees are often not able to work in their preferred official language; and official language communities are not receiving the support they need to reach their full potential.

Some institutions have put in place initiatives to ensure their employees understand what they have to do with regard to official languages—but then fall short in properly planning their activities in order to meet these obligations. Others carry out their policies effectively, but fail to properly evaluate their impact. There are also discrepancies within an institution, where the approach used is not always coherent, effective and comprehensive. It is in the best interest of Canadians, official language minority communities and public servants—as well as institutions themselves—to provide real leadership with regard to linguistic duality.

Canadians are generally tolerant and accommodating, but they do expect to be treated fairly and equitably. This includes receiving services of equal quality in either official language.

The reality is far too often the opposite--for instance, when airport authorities use contractors who do not have sufficient knowledge of their language obligations regarding service to the public, or when travellers returning to Canada are not served in their preferred language by the Canada Border Services Agency.

The poor active offer scores given to the 16 institutions evaluated by my office are mostly the result of a lack of knowledge, leadership, planning, implementation, and follow-up regarding their linguistic obligations. Unfortunately, too many institutions wait until a complaint has been brought against them or they receive a poor score on their report card before making any effort to better meet their language obligations.

The solutions are out there, however. My report highlights many practices implemented by institutions, in terms of many best practices implemented by institutions in service to the public, as well as inspiring examples of individuals who have made a difference within their institutions.

Lack of leadership continues to be an issue within institutions. Many lack the vision to create a public service where English and French enjoy equal status as languages of work. In many institutions, more than one-fifth of the employees belonging to official language minority communities and designated bilingual areas do not feel free to use the official language of their choice at work. For the Canada Border Services Agency, Health Canada, and Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada, the satisfaction rate is even lower.

Among the public servants surveyed, many do not feel comfortable preparing written material or communicating with their immediate supervisor in their own language. They also find it difficult to obtain specialized training that is readily available to the linguistic majority.

In 2008, I recommended that deputy heads of all federal institutions take concrete steps to create a work environment that is more conducive to the use of both English and French by employees in designated regions.

This year, after analyzing the responses of 117 federal institutions to my recommendations, I found that 30% had not taken concrete measures to improve the situation. Those that neglected to do anything about the problem were often those that required the most measures. Institutions such as Air Canada and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have shown little or no resolve to address language of work issues that have persisted for years.

Despite promising measures to improve the language of work situation within federal institutions, challenges persist in fostering bilingualism in the workplace. Lack of understanding by managers may be partly to blame. Federal senior managers have not given nearly enough attention to the issue of fostering bilingualism in the workplace.

Progress might be difficult to track, as the last government-wide public service employee survey dates back to 2008. With the propensity of large institutions to put efforts only where they can measure results, I fear that the absence of data will lead to an absence of improvement.

Federal institutions are also failing to help official language minority communities across the country to develop their full potential. Part VII of the Official Languages Act requires every federal institution to take positive measures to achieve this objective. Federal institutions can support and assist in the development of official language communities by evaluating the impact their policies and programs have on them.

What we have determined, however, is that current planning and evaluation practices are less than stellar. Out of the 16 institutions reviewed this year, 10 received a mark of D or E on their report cards for part VII, and only four received an A. By any standards, grades like these represent a lack of basic understanding and effort.

However, there are a few institutions that stand out from the others. Health Canada, for example, was one of the four institutions to receive an A for proper implementation of part VII because of its willingness to actively consult official language communities.

Despite some positive outcomes, measuring community vitality and tracking the progress of official languages throughout the country might prove more challenging, owing to recent changes in the census process. A wide range of federal institutions depend on information provided by the long-form census questionnaire to measure the results of their initiatives. How many French-speaking immigrants have come to Canada? Where do they choose to live, and how are they doing economically? Have the English-speaking communities of Quebec's lower north shore been successful in moving beyond a troubled fisheries industry? The answers to these questions and many others will be more difficult to obtain if the newly established census format is kept.

Even on initiatives that can be considered genuine success stories, promotion of Canada's official languages is often lacking. The 2010 Vancouver winter games are an example.

Implementing Part VII of the Official Languages Act continues to be a slow process. However, I truly believe that strong leadership will enable federal institutions to address their shortcomings, to improve understanding of their obligations under the act and to ensure proper planning of related activities.

So I will follow with great interest the federal government's response to the report of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages on the implementation of Part VII of the Official Languages Act, released in June 2010.

I also plan to focus my 2010-2011 annual report on the promotion of the use of English and French and on the development of official language communities.

In closing, what is being asked of federal institutions is realistic. Leaders who are determined to make a difference can have an enormous impact on their institutions. Fulfilling official language obligations requires knowledge and understanding of the act, leadership, planning and coordination of programs and services, and effective follow-up and evaluation.

This is nothing new; it's simply the way to do business. Above all, living up to official language responsibilities is in the best interests of the country.

Thank you for your attention.

Mr. Chairman, I would like to add a few words before answering your questions.

The fact that we presented the annual report in two volumes was a pilot project. In the process of evaluating this pilot project, we sent a form to parliamentarians and to other respondents. I have to admit that the response rate of parliamentarians was fairly weak. I am convinced that if you received one you responded. However, I do not think that your colleagues responded in great numbers.

I would ask you to do your appraisal of volume II and to encourage your colleagues to do so as well so that we can do a proper assessment of whether this is an effective way to be spending our resources or whether there are more effective ways to promote the values of the Official Languages Act.

I will now be happy to answer your questions.

8:55 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much, Mr. Commissioner.

Regarding what you just said, I will immediately respond by saying that committee members will offer to collaborate with you, as will the steering committee, if called upon. It is important that our parliamentary colleagues be able to give feedback effectively on the report in light of your consultations. We can come back on this issue, and I can assure you of my collaboration.

So without much further ado, we will now turn to committee members, beginning with the vice-chair of the committee, Mr. Mauril Bélanger.

8:55 a.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Welcome to all of you, Mr. Commissioner, and your team.

Let's get down to brass tacks. I will quote two paragraphs from a press release issued by the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada. I will then ask you what you think of them, Mr. Commissioner. I quote:

The Fédération is also surprised by the timid recommendations put forward by the commissioner in his report, given the dismal marks he gave some federal institutions and the less than encouraging conclusions he came to. The FCFA would have liked to see, for example, a recommendation for the Treasury Board, which is responsible for the implementation of Parts IV (communications with and services to the public) and V (language of work) of the act.

"The commissioner has several tools at his disposal. He can audit federal institutions, request follow-ups to his recommendations according to a specific timetable, and in extreme cases he can initiate court actions. We believe that the current context demands firmness and boldness from the commissioner to ensure that the act is fully implemented," says Ms. Kenny.

I would like to hear what you think about this, Mr. Commissioner.

9 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

First, I have an enormous amount of respect for Ms. Kenny and for the FCFA. Obviously, I take note of what they have to say. However, I do not believe that the recommendations and the actions of the office of the commissioner are timid.

For the first time in a long time, we have taken court action against Radio-Canada, under Part VII of the act, for what it did in the Windsor region. Major programming cuts had a huge impact on CBEF in Windsor, which mobilized the community into action. We are therefore taking Radio-Canada to court.

We have also intervened in the case of Michel Thibodeau v. Air Canada.

We conduct inquiries and observation. We issue report cards. We conduct follow-up evaluations of departments with deputy ministers and official language coordinators. One deputy minister in particular was in a state of shock after we evaluated his department. This triggered a series of conversations. In fact, I will speak with his executive committee shortly.

I have taken note of the FCFA's reaction, and I understand its frustration, and especially the frustration of people who live in remote areas and who see the act being breached on a regular basis. Those of you who travel often are in the best position to see which institutions do not respect the law. I therefore take note of those observations.

9 a.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

If I may, I will come back to that point.

I agree with you as far as people who travel are concerned, but regarding your report, the results for the act's two main areas, that is, the provision of services and the ability to provide those services, and support for communities, amount to a failing grade.

On page 9, you say that 9 out of 16 institutions provide active offer less than 50% of the time, and that for all institutions, the number is 45%. This means that, as far as active offer is concerned, government in general does not make the grade.

In the workplace, it is 2 out of 9 and even 0 out of 16. It is easy to provide tools, but as for using them to write texts, the result is 0 out of 16 for people who say they are satisfied with their ability to do so. So more than half of the institutions do not pass muster.

These results are damning. You yourself have said that in 30% of cases, senior officials, that is, deputy ministers, did not even bother to react to your recommendations. I have to admit that I am very discouraged by this attitude.

The fact that there is no secretariat within the Privy Council anymore, and that there is no ad hoc cabinet committee, nor even an ad hoc committee comprised of deputy ministers, may have something to do with these feeble results. Another factor might be that there are only about a dozen people left within Treasury Board responsible for enforcing the act, whereas before there were about 50.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger.

9:05 a.m.

Liberal

Mauril Bélanger Liberal Ottawa—Vanier, ON

Things have to get moving, Mr. Commissioner.

9:05 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

We can come back to that issue when it is your turn again.

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

Good morning, Mr. Commissioner.

I would also like to welcome the team from the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages.

I agree with Mr. Bélanger and the Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada. You are not the one who is responsible for this. All you did was write a report. In fact, I would like to thank you for the quality of this report. I wish to emphasize this. You tell it like it is.

You said a little earlier that this was a slow process. However, as far as I can tell, it is more like a slow death. This might come sooner than expected. For Canada as a whole, especially for the anglophone majority, official languages is a pain in the neck. Proof of this lies in the fact that there is no leadership on the issue. The dream of official bilingualism, which many people who identified themselves as French-Canadians, such as Pierre Elliott Trudeau, shared, is but a dream. It is not reality. Here is more evidence of that.

This makes me the best ever advocate for independence, despite the fact that I am a Franco-Ontarian and that I worked to get French schools in Saskatchewan. There is no respect for the French fact. It eventually led me to conceive of a project. I told myself that one day there would be a French-speaking country in North America, that we would be a good neighbour to Canada, but that at least the French culture and language would be respected. I felt that this country should be located where there was a critical mass of francophones, namely in Quebec. That's where I stand today. If you come up with a better idea, please tell me. What I see before me supports the things I just said.

It was in 2009, when the ruling in the DesRochers case was handed down, that we began to emphasize everything the Official Languages Act should be. Institutions have to make sure that they can communicate with all Canadian citizens in the language of their choice. English and French also have to be of the same quality. This was in 2009, but the act was adopted in 1969. Has it taken us 40 years to understand this principle?

The DesRochers case is before the Supreme Court, is it not?

9:05 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

9:05 a.m.

Bloc

Richard Nadeau Bloc Gatineau, QC

There still is no leadership. To give you an idea of this lack of leadership and the scope of the task, Mr. Fraser, I will just mention that Mr. Vic Toews, when he was president of Treasury Board, appeared before the committee. But he did not know about parts IV and V of the act. Part IV, as you know, deals with communication with the public and service delivery. As for part V, it allows people who work within the federal public service to work in the language of their choice. Mr. Toews was not aware of that either. The fact that the minister responsible for departments at Treasury Board did not know this speaks volumes about the way deputy ministers probably felt, as well as other people working in an area where bilingualism is not even mandatory.

I will now ask you a couple of more concrete questions. The Panamerican Games are approaching. These games are held in Spanish and English. I would like to know whether this will also be the case in 2015 in Toronto. How can you guarantee that there will also be French at those games? What has already been done to make sure this happens?

9:05 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

We have already started working on that issue, and I have already spoken with Mr. Ian Troop, the CEO of the Panamerican Games. I showed him the studies we did on the Olympic Games. His staff has already had conversations with my staff. I do not want him to reinvent the wheel, and I do not want us to struggle as much as we did with the Olympic Games. We presented him with reports, and we told him about everything we had to do.

I have also approached the Minister of Foreign Affairs, because, as far as the Panamerican Games are concerned, we'll have to have specific contact with countries in South America. We are engaged in conversations to make sure that we have the necessary linguistic and professional expertise at the Panamerican Games to ensure that we present the bilingual face of Canada. In that context, even though the official languages of the Panamerican Games are in fact English and Spanish, we must recognize that French and English are Canada's official languages.

Therefore, the challenges are a bit different from those we faced in Vancouver, but we have already made people aware of what is at stake and of this issue in particular.

9:10 a.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Steven Blaney

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

We will continue with Mr. Godin.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good day, Commissioner and members of your team.

Frankly, I don't know where to start. Honestly, I am extremely disappointed in this report in the sense that we've already heard all this. You and your predecessors have been making those recommendations for years now. The situation has not improved. When our colleague from Gatineau, Mr. Nadeau, asked Minister James Moore the question in the House of Commons yesterday, he felt it was enough to turn to page 8 and to say that there are fewer complaints than in the past and so the situation was improving. You say the exact opposite in the report.

Are you satisfied with the minister's answers when he says that there are fewer complaints and that this means the problems have been resolved?

9:10 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

I always feel uncomfortable giving a reason for a drop in the number of complaints. I have never suggested using the number of complaints as an indicator of success or failure, because, sometimes, people do not complain because they are jaded and convinced that their complaint will solve nothing. Sometimes, a complaint represents a whole series of individuals who have not been served. Sometimes, people do not complain because they are happy. It is extremely difficult to interpret something that hasn't been done. It is much easier to assess people who do something than why people don't do it.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Commissioner, how long have you been Commissioner of Official Languages?

9:10 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

As of October 17, it has been four years.

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Are you satisfied? Would you say that over the past four years, you have seen something positive, or do you think that the situation is negative and that we are going in the wrong direction?

We can think of this government, which has eliminated a detailed census by Statistics Canada to collect data. We think of the Roadmap; it's all fine and well to talk about a roadmap, but we don't even know where we are headed. We can think of our communities that are dissatisfied, and so on. Are you satisfied with the four years you have spent here as an officer of Parliament, as Commissioner of Official Languages, and not as an ombudsman, a word I don't like? Are you satisfied?

9:10 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

Mr. Chair, one thing strikes me and this is reflected in the report. There is an inconsistency in terms of actions taken and a lack of sustained action. Some institutions are achieving progress, others are backsliding. Each time I see a department that is moving forward—

9:10 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

Which ones are moving forward?

9:10 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

Departments that have moved forward are the Department of Public Works and Government Services Canada and the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada. We are talking about institutions and specific actions. You can literally see the leadership of a deputy minister whenever there is a success. That is why I stress the importance of leadership. Clearly, there is a lack of overall leadership in this regard, otherwise there wouldn't be this—

9:15 a.m.

NDP

Yvon Godin NDP Acadie—Bathurst, NB

In what ways has the Department of Fisheries and Oceans Canada achieved progress?

9:15 a.m.

Commissioner, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

Graham Fraser

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans has taken very specific actions with regard to part VII of the Official Languages Act and in terms of consulting official languages minority communities.

Ghislaine, could you give more details about Fisheries and Oceans Canada?

9:15 a.m.

Ghislaine Charlebois Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans, as you said, Commissioner, has taken action particularly with regard to part VII of the Official Languages Act. This department has made great progress in terms of consultations. It also took into consideration within its programs the needs of communities. It consulted those communities more and took a good look at where its programs were achieving results within communities.