Official Languages Committee on Dec. 7th, 2010

[William Victor Baker]

This action plan includes the current year. So we've already made some progress.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

In short, it is in effect.

I didn't have time to examine it completely, but I looked at language of work. For the first year, 2010-2011, the verb "remind" constantly comes up. I get the impression you're going to hold a lot of meetings with your employees. It's only in the second year that you establish a process for handling complaints. For the second year, you talk about analyzing those responses.

Do you believe this way of doing things will be productive? Shouldn't you implement your complaint process at the outset so you have figures that enable you to react? Looking at that, I realize that you will be doing nothing between now and the end of your plan.

[William Victor Baker]

I would like to do everything immediately, but we have to follow the steps that will enable us to implement a fair process.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I understand that you have to operate in stages because it's impossible to do everything at the same time, but I see that, from the way you're proceeding, no measures will be taken by the end of this plan. So we won't see any improvements on specific points before 2013-2014 or even 2014-2015.

[William Victor Baker]

No, Mr. Chairman. We can see on page 3 that, for the second year of our plan, 2011-2012, we plan to set up a complaint process. However, 2011-2012 starts in three weeks. So we're going to try to make some progress.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I encourage you to bring that forward. That will help you take the necessary measures to bring in corrective action.

[William Victor Baker]

That's good advice.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You said you have no problems on the hiring side, but the fact remains that 10% of your workforce isn't perfectly bilingual whereas their positions are classified bilingual.

What are you going to do about that 10%?

[William Victor Baker]

First of all, we have to offer the necessary training so that we can—

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

You told us that some of those employees could make use of the tools. That kind of support can be offered, but if there is no willingness, no leadership...

A lot of information can be offered as support, but if people aren't urged on, if they aren't compelled, in a way, they won't make use of those tools. How do you ensure those tools are used?

[William Victor Baker]

We aren't permissive to the point of offering people tools and letting them do what they want with them. We have established requirements and we are measuring their progress against those requirements. That's taken into consideration in the performance appraisal.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

That's part of their performance? It's assessed in that perspective?

[William Victor Baker]

Yes. That's still part of it, in order for them to receive the bilingualism bonus and all that, for example.

Starting in 2011—next year—under our action plan, I'm going to have something concerning official languages in all the performance agreements for all our managers and employees.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[William Victor Baker]

We're now about to be able to do that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mrs. Zarac.

We'll continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Baker, you'll understand my scepticism. It's not just aimed at you. But as you have the immense honour and joy of being with us this morning, I'm going to ask you the following questions.

You say this takes time and that a process has to be put in place. Good lord, the act has been around for 40 years. I don't know how long you've been deputy minister there. I know you've been deputy minister in other departments. It is very frustrating for me to hear these things, but I'm not surprised by them.

In the text your read to us this morning, you say, on page 9:

With respect to Part V of the act [language of work in the federal government; in other words, the employees of the Canadian government], we will do more to create an environment in which employees feel comfortable using their official language in meetings, in e-mails and particularly when communicating with their supervisors.

That means that not everyone currently feels comfortable. And you're going to do more, why? To create an environment where these people can finally feel comfortable. If employees at your department don't currently feel comfortable, that means they're working under duress; they're afraid they can't communicate in their language. I assume it's French, knowing that the majority of people there are anglophones based on what you've told us. There are 331 bilingual positions, some 30 of which are not filled by bilingual individuals. And you add:

To that end, online tools are available to employees...

We're going to be hearing from representatives of the armed forces next Thursday. I invite you to read the verbatim report of that meeting. If, by December 31, 2010, all the senior executives of the armed forces who wear stars—from one to four stars—don't meet bilingualism requirements and don't have a certificate attesting to their bilingualism, they will no longer be promoted. This is clearly not that important for a colonel, because I don't know what promotion comes after that. For the others, there will be no more promotions. You are bilingual or you will no longer be promoted.

Would you agree to adopt that approach at your department? Senior executives who aren't bilingual would no longer be able to be promoted. There would mean no more promotions. They would stay where they are or be demoted.

It seems to me that would ensure that your staff who are bilingual, but who don't have senior responsibilities could feel comfortable working at your department.

[William Victor Baker]

Mr. Chairman, I believe that. to be a senior executive or manager anywhere in government, in the bilingual regions, you have to meet linguistic requirements.

If I have an EX-01-level director, for example, who is not bilingual, we first have to commit funding for that individual to become bilingual.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Yes, but it's a BBB profile.

[William Victor Baker]

No, not for EX-level positions. We have changed the profile for EX minus 1 positions. These are people who report to EXs—supervisors. They are, let's say, middle managers at Public Safety Canada. It was a BBB profile, but we changed that profile because it was not enough. We made that decision this year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

All right, that was in 2010, but did those people suddenly obtain the CBC profile?

[William Victor Baker]

No.

Some already have the skills to function in a CBC profile, but they have to take the exam.

For the others, it's training. If a person is unable to meet CBC profile requirements, some way must obviously be found to eliminate that person's supervisory responsibilities. That will take time. We have to be human, at the same time, when it comes to change.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Forty years! I'm human too. There are bilingual people who don't feel comfortable in your department.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.