Official Languages Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

That is exactly what I wanted to hear, Mr. Dupont. Thank you.

With respect to the measure, as I was saying, does that mean that training must be given? Does it mean that the managers are responsible?

[Serge Dupont]

Yes and no, considering that the individuals in these positions must have the linguistic proficiency. This is more about enabling others to eventually have access to these positions. For example, in Yellowknife, if an individual were able to meet a requirement with a little bit of training, that would be encouraged, of course.

[Lise Zarac, Liberal, LaSalle—Émard, QC]

I would like to commend you for having already added official languages questions to your survey. That was not a recommendation made by the commissioner, but he did mention it in his report. So I would like to commend you for having already done it.

However, you just told us that it did not result in any significant improvements in terms of official languages but that it did give you useful benchmarks as you moved forward.

Could you elaborate?

[Serge Dupont]

The survey showed us where we need to improve. It provided us with a benchmark that indicates where we are coming from. Currently, the percentage of individuals who are comfortable writing memos in their language, particularly among francophones, is at a certain level. I forget what the figure is, but it is not very high. We need to ensure that, the next time, we score higher and that, in two years' time, the mark will be even higher. That provides us with a yardstick for measuring our performance.

As a deputy minister, I can then see a breakdown of the scores for the various sectors of the department. The situation is not the same everywhere. Some sectors are stronger than others. I can then go and see these managers and tell them that they have to pay attention because there is a problem. Their performance agreement includes the objective to promote official languages in their sector of activity.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Ms. Zarac. We will continue with Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The commissioner's report gives you a mark that is very difficult to accept. However, you now know what work needs to be done and where you need to start. It is unfortunate, but you should find some consolation in knowing that your department is not alone. There are several departments in the same boat.

I have an extremely important question that I ask most, if not all, individuals, from the various departments and agencies who appear before us, following the commissioner's report. Your work involves providing service to the public and dealing with employees who occupy positions at various levels.

I would like to talk to you about how your employees draft documents. Obviously, the area of natural resources is very connected to the scientific realm, and that is understandable. Your department uses a vocabulary, a jargon, that is not necessarily familiar to the general public. What type of encouragement are your employees given in order to use their official language of choice when drafting documents?

I am referring to the drafting, in French, of memos, comments and important documents that help managers make choices from the options or analyses that have been presented. We know that we are able to be much more accurate when writing in our own language. Some people will no doubt tell me that francophones nevertheless use a lot of English scientific vocabulary because Americans dominate in this sector and therefore English is used more than any other language. The fact remains that, according to the latest information we have—and I checked this morning—there are still two official languages in Canada, French and English.

What is done to encourage your employees to draft documents in French?

[Serge Dupont]

That encouragement is something I reaffirmed in messages forwarded to departmental employees as soon as I arrived, after the commissioner had tabled his report. Currently, we are in a unique and quite favourable situation at Natural Resources Canada because both the minister and the deputy minister are francophones. Moreover, briefs sent to the minister are drafted in French, unless they are urgent.

Earlier, I listened to Ms. Biggs' presentation, and in actual fact, the anglophones are now having their documents translated and not the reverse. At the end of the day, we are in a favourable situation. I believe that I provide direct encouragement, especially given the fact that now the information is being sent to a minister and a deputy minister who are both francophone.

That being said, it is true that some French-speaking professionals are in the habit of working in English and instinctively write in English, because they are part of international or other types of networks. We naturally encourage them to write in French, particularly since, in many cases, the final reader is currently a francophone.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

You are referring here to memos and scientific documents that are written during the course of work.

[Serge Dupont]

Yes.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

But, in addition to work, there are staff relations. Sometimes you have to move staff around and deal with situations that can be difficult and require discussions at various levels, which also has an impact on the employees in your department. All of the departments scored very poorly on that aspect, and we agree that the situation needs to be improved.

Let's talk about communication with executives and the minister, the Hon. Christian Paradis. Some people who work in your department, people I have known for quite some time, have told me that the minister's requests for information in French have led to a small internal revolution within the department. A few woke up to the reality of this new way of doing business. That does not change the quality of the work, but it does change the way that it is done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I would like to conclude so that he can answer, Mr. Chair.

Are there any incentives when it comes to communicating with managers?

[Serge Dupont]

First of all, here are some figures about francophones taken from the survey.

In response to the question “When I communicate with my manager, I feel free to use the official language of my choice”, 65% of francophones said that they strongly agreed with the statement and that they felt free to do so, and 15% mostly agreed with the statement. Overall, approximately 80% of the individuals felt comfortable enough to do so, and only 8% said the opposite. Overall, that is not bad, but we must continue working on this area, in particular, ensuring that executives have the necessary competency level to communicate with their staff in both languages. There are some non EX-level management positions for which linguistic requirements may still need to be established. That may be the case in certain regions. We would have to look into that, but generally speaking, the figures are not too bad. They could be better, but we will continue working to improve the situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau

We will continue with Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Dupont, Ms. Paquin and Mr. Arora.

I am happy to see that, since the minister, Mr. Paradis, is a francophone and since he gave you specific direction, it is helping us to communicate more in French in certain departments. When he was Minister of Public Works and Government Services, that department received very high scores. So that bodes well for the future and for the improvement of your scores.

[Serge Dupont]

There was no francophone deputy minister.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That is true as well.

Your rating is not very high, everyone agrees on that. According to observations of in-person service made by the Commissioner of Official Languages between January and April 2010, an active visual offer was present in 79% of cases, an active offer by staff was made in 35% of cases—which is low, in my opinion—while service in the language of the linguistic minority was available in 76% of cases. How do you explain the problem of active offer?

[Serge Dupont]

There are two possibilities: either people who are in contact with the public are not sufficiently aware of their obligations under the act, or there is a sort of carelessness or negligence. Neither of these are acceptable. That's what I said earlier to the member. There are certain problems that must be solved, and that is one of them. In certain positions, an active offer of service must be made in both languages. So we need to target 100% in that area.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Do you have measures to solve that type of problem? Because 35% is low.

[Serge Dupont]

As I explained, we must first clearly pinpoint the obligations themselves, that is, in which offices and for which positions we must ensure that people understand exactly what their responsibilities are, and ascertain that they have the qualifications to carry them out. We must also ensure that monitoring is done. We cannot be vague, otherwise things will be overlooked. We must be very targeted and focus all of our efforts on achieving total success. That is one of the first measures that we are seeking to implement. The first measures of the plan are intended to establish an inventory of the offices where the active offer must be 100% available. After that, we can improve the mindset and go beyond what is necessary from a strictly legal viewpoint, but we have to start with these first measures.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

In your opinion, are some employees still shy about using the other language?

[Serge Dupont]

No.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Or is it the culture that creates this type of situation?

[Serge Dupont]

I cannot imagine that shyness or intimidation still exists. Sometimes we can assess the linguistic ability of the person we are speaking with and decide to speak in their language, which may not always be our choice, to facilitate the conversation or be better understood. Once again, that brings us back to linguistic ability, especially among senior department officials. Language training must be offered as widely as possible throughout the department to ensure that, besides simply having the right to use French, employees are able to do so and carry on a conversation at the same level as if they were speaking in English because it is supposedly easier.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.