Official Languages Committee on Feb. 17th, 2011

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That is undoubtedly the highest number of bilingual employees of all the agencies we have heard from.

We will now begin our second round with Mr. Murphy.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

In fact, 92.4% of your employees are bilingual.

That brings me to a question regarding the third page of your opening remarks, Ms. Biggs. That is a sufficiently high level, and it is a good thing to have such a bilingual staff. I am wondering why CIDA has problems with its active offer of services.

On page 3, you state: "Over the next few months, we will approach all staff working with the public to reinforce their obligations." And yet, almost all of your employees are bilingual. Having them ask: "Puis-je vous aider, can I help you?" should not be difficult.

Of the 92.4%, how many of CIDA's senior managers, the top dogs, are bilingual?

How many people in the upper level are bilingual?

[Sheila Tenasco-Banerjee]

All of our executives have a requirement to be bilingual at the CBC level. That's an obligation under the legislation, and everybody meets that.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

If it's top down, this active offer, how difficult can it be? Why is your mark so low, if 92.4% of your people are bilingual and if your top-level managers are bilingual? Why is it so poor? Is it where you work, where you provide services? Is there an explanation?

[Diane Jacovella]

Of course, we will want to meet with the Commissioner of Official Languages to better understand the ratings we received.

Now is not the time to call into question those ratings. We know that we need to improve some things, and that is why we are moving ahead on that front. That said, we also want to understand why we received such low ratings. That would help us understand what we need to change.

As I mentioned, an active service offer can include a response in both official languages. We perhaps do not provide an active offer by saying: "Hello, bonjour, can I help you?" We have to make sure that our employees understand that, as was previously mentioned, people can be intimidated if they are not answered in both official languages from the outset.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I have a few questions concerning part VII of the Official Languages Act, i.e., the promotion of English and French. On page 9 and other pages of your action plan, you indicate that the primary responsibility rests with the coordinator. That can be found in section 41.

Do you have such a coordinator and how come that person is not here today?

[Darren Schemmer]

I'd say that this person does exist and that this person is in my branch, and I'm representing that person.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Okay. That will suffice.

The other question about section 41

—talking about CIDA's efforts to promote both languages. In the third paragraph on page 5 of your opening remarks, you state that 12 organizations were given the opportunity to comment and provide feedback on CIDA's programming and services.

Could you give us the names of those organizations? Can they be found in your opening remarks?

[Darren Schemmer]

No, they were not included in the presentation.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Do you have the names of those organizations?

[Darren Schemmer]

We do not have them with us today, but we can have them sent to you.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I would ask you to send them to the clerk so that she can distribute them to all committee members.

I have another question, Mr. Chair. How much time do I have remaining?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

That will surely be your last question, since you have about 30 seconds remaining.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I note that you have eight employees outside Quebec and Ottawa.

We have eight regional staff. Where do you find those?

[Darren Schemmer]

There is an officer with an administrative assistant in Vancouver, in Calgary, and in Halifax, and a part-time representative in Saskatchewan and in Manitoba.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

There's one person, then, in Atlantic Canada, just to put it on record.

[Darren Schemmer]

There's a person in Atlantic Canada with a part-time administrative assistant in Halifax and a part-time administrative assistant in Moncton.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

There's someone in Moncton. Okay, that's a good answer. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Good morning to you all.

I would like to make a few comments. Earlier, one of you pointed out that an active offer of bilingual services amounted to answering half in English and half in French. I would simply suggest that, if a person asks you for services, you please answer that person in their own language.

Bilingualism does not mean starting a sentence in one language and ending it in another. If a person speaks to you in English, respond in English, and if a person speaks to you in French, respond in French. Sometimes, these kinds of approaches become embedded.

One of my colleagues asked a question about whether people felt intimidated about speaking or working in French. You said you did not know. That is an honest answer. One thing is certain: page 27 of the commissioner's report deals with writing documents in one's preferred official language. All institutions, including yours, that were assessed by the commissioner received a zero out of 16 rating.

That refers to people writing documents in French that are intended for use by anglophones. Do francophones feel obliged to write in English in order to avoid a loss of meaning that might arise from a translation? Once a document is translated, it is sent back to the person who wrote it. That represents lost time, and a person who does that is frowned upon. Ultimately, the person will give up and no longer write in his or her language, thinking that: "Anyway, Canada is English."

I would also like to underscore the fact that 54% of your employees are francophones. I presume that you are referring to people who use French as their everyday language. As well, 92.4% of your employees are bilingual. You said that you will be meeting with the commissioner in order to better understand the rating he gave you. In my view, it is totally absurd that you should receive such low ratings when your employees are capable of expressing themselves in both English and French.

I will come back to my question and give you time to explain. Are people encouraged to write in French or do you prefer they write in English because that is a faster and more effective way of doing things?

[Diane Jacovella]

People are entitled to write in their preferred official language. We are concerned by the fact that people are saying that they will write in the other language because they want to be understood. Having been made aware of that, we decided to let everyone know that all of the agency's employees, including the president, could very well read and understand documents in French without having to have them translated. No document, whether intended for the most junior employee or the president, needs to be translated, because employees at all levels are clearly able to read in both languages. We will make certain that employees understand that to be the case. It is much easier to write in your first language because you can express yourself more clearly. Doing so benefits employees because they can better share their ideas, concepts and recommendations.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Employees can therefore better communicate their recommendations to Minister Oda, preventing her from crossing things out.

Yes, I understand. Please continue.

[Diane Jacovella]

We will make sure that people can write in their preferred language. We started doing so when we saw the commissioner's report and noted the very low rating.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

CIDA was established under Pierre Elliott Trudeau, which is quite some time ago. The organization acquired an international reputation. Today, it is losing its luster for reasons that are well known. I will not get into that because, in any case, you are not to blame.

We are talking about being vigilant to ensure that your agency's employees feel at ease to express themselves in their first language.

Let us talk about the environment within your organization and the reason why you obtained such a low rating. Personally, I have concluded that—people were interviewed, and the statistics clearly point to the agency obtaining a very good report—people are unhappy because they do not feel at home and must work in the other language. How will you change that situation?