Official Languages Committee on April 13th, 2010

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Madam, how long has the Official Languages Act existed?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you very much, Mr. Nadeau, your time is up. We will now go to Mrs. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Welcome once again. You met with us as recently as October 2009.

I'm going to choose to speak English today because I'm proud to be able to speak both languages. I am a product of immersion.

What has surprised me here today is the lack of understanding by our members and their lack of acknowledgment that we have a significant societal problem with the lack of bilingual Canadians.

We have studied this in our committee. We have recognized, from a number of witnesses, that this is not an Air Canada problem solely. This is a societal problem within our country, in that we are not producing enough bilingual people. Every university that has appeared before this committee has indicated very clearly that we do not have enough bilingual Canadians.

This is not your fault. I am going to apologize to all of you, because I am absolutely appalled at the treatment you received here this morning. You did not come here to be attacked, and I am sorry that is all you seem to be getting from some of these people.

Monsieur Godin, it is my turn.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Excuse me, Ms. Glover, but Mr. Godin has a point of order.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, let's clarify that right away. Ms. Glover is not the chair of the committee even if she would like to run the show. She is not the one to decide if it is a point of order or not; that's your job, Mr. Chair. I do not need Ms. Glover apologizing on my behalf.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Godin, please respect the time allocated to your colleagues, as they did for you. This kind of interruption delays our work. It is clearly not a point of order.

I will restart the clock and go back to Ms. Glover.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

Merci.

I'm particularly disturbed because I've been on this committee since I was elected. I'm sorry that I'm making comments here and I will get around to asking a question, but every single time we have witnesses, for whatever reason, it seems there is partisanship targeting the witness to get at the government or others. This has to stop.

I want to acknowledge very clearly that this lack of bilingual Canadians is not your fault only. All members of this committee have learned very clearly that even in the public service, we cannot find bilingual people to hire. We have 5,000 posts that we cannot fill.

But there have been some suggestions here today that I would like you to consider very seriously. I'm not going to agree with everything that Monsieur D'Amours said, because it was very partisan, but I am going to agree with him on this point.

Mr. Chair, I did not make any accusations or complaints while others were speaking. I have the floor, so please let me speak.

Mr. D'Amours made a very good point, and I'm hoping we can get a commitment from you here today to improve. The ad he mentioned does not mention that bilingualism is an asset; I think you've missed the boat there. I think that's a very good point. If we can offer suggestions to improve, I think that is something we can obviously move forward on.

Another point that was brought up by other people was that the ads were placed in only five locations. I come from Manitoba. We have one of the largest francophone communities in this country west of Ontario, and I agree that there are a number of students who might be willing to move for employment during the summer.

We have a bilingual employment centre. I noticed that your

posters are usually put up in places like the Collège universitaire de Saint-Boniface and Pluri-elles. In terms of immersion programs, many students go to the University of Manitoba, to the University of Winnipeg, and so on. I encourage you to make these minor changes in order to increase your chances of finding bilingual staff.

I am not going to blame you for everything that happens here in Canada; I am going to congratulate you, because you come here every time, and I listen to the way you present, and you point out very clearly the challenges you have, and then we disregard them.

I acknowledge your challenges. I encourage you to do better. We've obviously given you a couple of points that you can improve on, but we cannot hold you to account for everything that goes on in this world, and I won't do it. I don't think that's realistic.

Promotions are another area that I think you need to look at. Via Rail, I believe, has a very good system through which they recognize the abilities of their bilingual employees and progress them into management. I think you ought to consider this approach very seriously, because I think that's where your managers set an example. They really set an example.

I'm critical that you haven't put those initiatives in place yet, because they have been mentioned before, but I'm also encouraging you to please look at them. I would like to know how you feel about those suggestions and whether you're willing today to commit to them.

[Louise McEvoy]

We take very good note of Mr. D'Amours' observation and your comment about the ad. We will talk with our recruitment department.

When we saw the list of papers--because this is the decision of the recruitment group--we also asked why Winnipeg didn't put an ad in. We were told that a sufficient quantity of candidates who had declared and had been tested as bilingual were already in our database. That is the reason, but we take very good note of your observations.

As for promotions, priority is given to bilingual candidates in all promotions, even when a position does not have the bilingual competence requirement. That is how we put it up. We never put up a promotion for unilingual persons only. There is always a note saying that priority will be given to bilingual candidates in all our promotions.

[Shelly Glover, Conservative, Saint Boniface, MB]

I want to bring that one step further. You can't get promoted unless you're bilingual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mrs. Glover.

We will now go to Mr. Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I have a short comment to make.

If Mrs. Glover feels the need to apologize for remarks made by other members of the committee, I challenge her to identify how my questions and the thrust of them require such an apology. If she is successful, I will apologize willingly, but it is not up to her to do that for me.

I will go back to my questions. When Air Canada was privatized, did anyone at Air Canada have any kind of reservations regarding Air Canada's obligations under the Official Languages Act?

[Louise McEvoy]

I was not there at the time. I cannot speak on behalf of people who were, but it does not seem to have been—

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

What year did that occur?

[Louise McEvoy]

The privatization?

[Louise-Hélène Sénécal]

It was partially completed in 1988, and completed fully in July 1989.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But you were there, Ms. McEvoy.

[Louise McEvoy]

Yes, but I did not participate in the decision.

[Louise-Hélène Sénécal]

And I arrived in June 1989.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Were you in legal services?

[Louise McEvoy]

Yes.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

So given your 30 years of experience, you should have seen whether at the time, anyone at Air Canada had expressed any kind of reservation.

[Louise-Hélène Sénécal]

I did not identify any.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Then why is the company now asking for fair rules, or a level playing field?

[Louise-Hélène Sénécal]

It is not a request. We have not asked for anything specific. We have been asked if there is unfairness or an additional obligation for Air Canada. Yes, there is an additional obligation, and in our industry, that leads to iniquity. We are not here to make any requests.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

But the facts were public in 1989, and no one expressed any reservation. In this case that would imply that Air Canada accepted these obligations.

Can you give me a ballpark figure for Air Canada's revenues?