Official Languages Committee on Feb. 9th, 2012

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Go ahead, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I will nevertheless try to meet Mr. Gourde's request by saying that I'm getting there. Please be reassured.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I wanted to say that the example I have just cited is a precise reflection of the work we should be doing. That moreover is the work that we are being prevented from doing or that we are preventing ourselves from doing as a result of the motion before us. I will recall that the text of that motion is as follows: "That all Committee business of the Committee be conducted in camera." That is what we obviously refuse to allow.

Now I would like to read from a document that concerns House procedure. It may help us understand what promotes this relationship of trust that we are seriously undermining. I know that you feel time is dragging on, Mr. Gourde, but this will barely take a few minutes. As you will see, it is directly related to the amendment. It reads as follows:

The House of Commons and its Members enjoy certain constitutional rights and immunities which are collectively referred to as parliamentary privilege (or simply “privilege”). Parliamentary privileges were first claimed centuries ago when the English House of Commons was struggling to establish a distinct role for itself within Parliament. These privileges were necessary to protect the House of Commons and its Members, not from the people, but from the power and interference of the King and the House of Lords. The privileges enjoyed by the House and its Members continue to be vital to the proper functioning of Parliament. From time to time the House of Commons in Canada has had to challenge the Crown, the Executive (Cabinet) or the Upper House (the Senate), by asserting its independence based on parliamentary privilege.

Further on, it states:Rights that are protected by privilege are those that are necessary in order to allow Members of the House of Commons to perform their parliamentary functions.

I am not making these words up; they are here. It seems to me that is what I am doing.

Then it states:These rights are enjoyed both by individual Members of Parliament—because the House cannot perform its functions without its Members—and by the House, as a whole, for the protection of its Members as well as its own authority and dignity.

I admit I did not expect to see the word "dignity". I smiled and felt a wave of fresh air and satisfaction in reading that it was a matter of dignity. In my view, the motion before us distances us from that.

I continue:The rights and immunities related to Members individually may be grouped under the following headings:[...]

I'll give you the first right. You don't have the right to respond, and I am sorry about that, but I'll give you the response: it is freedom of speech.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Mr. Gourde, do you have a point of order?

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Yes. If my colleague absolutely wanted me to ask him a question, I could—

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

In fact, I didn't want you to ask me a question.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

The Standing Orders are clear: he may deliver his speech, but there is no conversation or questions and answers between members.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Chairman, does that apply even if the member asks me whether I can ask him a question? He did ask me that.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

No, you may not.

Go ahead, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you.

In fact, that was not a question, but rather a suggested response. I admit I sometimes give in to my old habits as a teacher who wants and seeks cooperation, who wants and seeks exchange, actions that are not provided for by the Standing Orders. I'll get used to that and—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Mr. Aubin, to settle the matter, you must address the chair rather than members.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

That will put an end to the confusion.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

I'll take note of that. Thank you for that wise reminder.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I have a point of order.

Since my colleague showed some openness, how could we conduct an exchange?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

That's not a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Bélanger, it is the duty of the chair and the clerk to—

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

Pardon me, but that is not a point of order.

Continue, Mr. Aubin.

[Robert Aubin, NDP, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

So I was talking about the rights and immunities related to members individually. First of all, there is freedom of speech. The others are less directly related to the motion, but I will mention them all the same, to provide an idea of the rights and privileges that the parliamentarians of this institution enjoy. They are freedom from arrest in civil actions, exemption from jury duty and the exemption from being subpoenaed to attend court.

Let's talk about what concerns us first of all, that is to say freedom of speech. That freedom is interfered with by the motion introduced by the government party, "That all Committee business of the Committee be conducted in camera."

On the subject of freedom of speech, we have a highly instructive text here, if ever there was one, which states:The privilege of freedom of speech in parliamentary debates or proceedings is generally regarded as the most important of the privileges enjoyed by Members of Parliament and witnesses that appear before parliamentary committees.

I will repeat that simply to ensure we clearly understand it:The privilege of freedom of speech in parliamentary debates or proceedings is generally regarded as the most important of the privileges enjoyed by Members of Parliament and witnesses that appear before parliamentary committees.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

I agree with my colleague on what he has just said, but I would like to know when we will be able to exercise that privilege.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

That is not a point of order, but, since you asked me the question, Mr. Gourde, I will tell you what the situation is. Following Mr. Aubin, we will move on to Dan Harris, then to Mr. Godin. Then it will be the government party's turn.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you for that information, Mr. Chairman.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Yvon Godin]

You may continue, Mr. Aubin.