Official Languages Committee on Feb. 28th, 2012

[Jean-Pierre Corbeil]

Quebec's immigration policy seems to be working very well. Of the total number of immigrants who arrived in the five years preceding a census, 70% can speak French. Of course, that is not what we are seeing outside Quebec. However, interprovincial migration will always be a factor. That's an important issue. Some immigrants tend to migrate to Toronto or Ottawa. The period from 2001 to 2006 was the first time the number of anglophones leaving Quebec was so low. In fact, many of them who were outside Quebec returned to the province where they were born.

As I previously mentioned, a third of Quebec's anglophone population is made up of immigrants. So immigration is definitely a very important factor in the anglophone minority community.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Ms. Duchesne, you pay special attention to the fact that francophones outside Quebec must have access to justice in their language. Do anglophones in Quebec have virtually the same problem as francophones outside Quebec?

[Andrée Duchesne]

In Quebec—and my colleague can confirm this—the justice system is very bilingual. I told you a little earlier about the Contraventions Act. Our agreement with Quebec does not include a contribution agreement for English-language services in view of the fact that all those services are already offered there, both in French and in English. The needs of the anglophone population in Quebec are different; although they are similar to those of the francophone population outside Quebec in terms of the importance of having access to simplified legal information in an easy-to-understand language. The problem is the same as for all people living in French outside Quebec. Their needs are currently very much in that area.

Together with the people from Quebec, we examined the province's main legal tools, particularly for the purpose of making the Civil Code of Quebec accessible in an English form that is legally consistent and acceptable. The fact remains that Quebec anglophones have different needs when it comes to access to justice.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

My next question concerns health.

Of course, when you have a health problem and go to the hospital, you are vulnerable. However, it is easier when you can obtain care in your mother tongue. You can explain your problems to the doctor, and it is better when you can do that in your mother tongue.

On that subject, I would like to know whether the roadmap has enabled you to increase the number of francophone health professionals in the francophone communities outside Quebec.

[Debbie Beresford-Green]

Thank you for the question.

The short answer is yes, because one of the three components of this program, under the roadmap, is training health professionals and retaining them in both the francophone minority communities outside Quebec and the anglophone communities in Quebec.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. Bélanger, you have the floor.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, ladies and gentlemen. I don't know why, but it's like we were about to start a square dance: the women on one side, the men on the other.

I will ask my questions quite quickly as I will be speaking only once.

First, I want to tell my colleague Mr. Godin that I very much enjoyed his first question. As for the $7.5 million that was used to conduct the survey, I was behind that, Mr. Godin. As we did not have those funds, we had to involve 10 departments and agencies. The fact remains that it was done because it was important. I believe it would also be important to do it again. We will put the question to the minister when he appears.

As Canadian Heritage decided that we would be doing its work, I am going to put a question to the Health Canada and Justice Canada representatives so that we can get some information. I don't expect to get it immediately. And if you are unable to submit it to us, I ask you to inform us of that fact.

First, I would like to know whether the summative evaluation that you must conduct under the roadmap has been completed? Who does it in your department? Incidentally, it would be good for the Department of Justice representative to provide us with an organization chart. The Health Canada people have identified themselves, but we do not know where you stand in your organization. Who conducts your summative study? Who did you consult? When, where and how did you do it? Was it done by telephone or mail, for example? What questions did you ask? What answers did you receive? When can we expect to receive all that information? Of that information, is there any that you are unable to pass on to us?

[Andrée Duchesne]

I may not cover all your questions this morning.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Is there anything that you cannot tell us?

[Andrée Duchesne]

Not at this time, since our summative evaluation is almost complete.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I'll wait for the information. I don't want it immediately.

[Andrée Duchesne]

Perfect. I will give it to you in writing.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you very much.

Thanks very much to the Health Canada representatives. They have done a good job.

Ms. Beresford-Green, you mentioned growing evidence—that is the term you used. That evidence indicates below average health status for linguistic minorities. Can you share that evidence or give us the references? It would be useful to consult it.

Mr. Farley, during the same period of time, McGill University apparently trained twice as many professionals as were trained on the francophone side.

How do you explain that? I ask you to answer that question immediately.

[Roger Farley]

Thank you. I can easily answer it.

Health Canada's approach in this area is really different. In the francophone communities, the department has an agreement with 11 francophone colleges and universities, including the Université de Moncton, Université Sainte-Anne, in Nova Scotia, the University of Ottawa and Collège Boréal. On the francophone side, Health Canada funds additional spots to train professionals: physicians, speech therapists and nurses. That's initial training. That training lasts one to two years, depending on the college programs, and longer in the university programs.

Health Canada takes a different approach on the anglophone side in Quebec. With McGill University, at the community's request, the department gives language training to professionals who are already in the labour market.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

You don't train professionals; you only offer language training.

[Roger Farley]

It is indeed language training. For example, we give language training to working nurses so they can offer services in English.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

I understand. That's fine. Thank you.

You mentioned the health centre in Edmonton. I recently visited it. Mr. Farley, I can't help but point out that only 5 or 6 of the 138 "DAS" beds, that is to say daily assisted beds, are occupied by francophones. The other beds are occupied by anglophones. And yet the centre is a francophone community initiative funded in part by the francophone community and the Government of Canada.

How do you explain that? I know the answer. I know that the province assigns the beds. Couldn't the federal government get involved in this to some degree? It could ensure that the francophone community, which made a major effort for the centre to be built, can serve francophones.

The francophone community manages 62 other beds, which are not "DAS", or daily assistance, beds. Believe it or not, those beds are all occupied by francophones. There appears to be a minor injustice here.

I just wanted to raise that point with you. I don't expect an immediate response. That finding troubled me a little and it is a particular concern to the community. I hope a solution is found in this matter. I leave it in your hands.

Now I turn to the representatives of the Department of Justice.

With all due respect, I am a bit disappointed by your presentation. You offered some facts without providing an overview.

Why have you spent only about 30% of the funds? At this point, you should have gone well past 60%, since this is the fourth year. By comparison, Health Canada is at 60%, and that's all to its credit.

The statistics for the three years completed to date show that Health Canada is at 60%. As there are two years left, that's perfect. You are only at 30%, 33% and 36%. Why?

[Andrée Duchesne]

I don't know what figures you are referring to. I don't have them in front of me. Having said that, I can give you one reason for the situation. As I mentioned to you, the department received $49.5 million over five years for the Contraventions Act Fund. Those agreements are arranged with the provinces and take an enormous amount of time to be negotiated.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Madam, allow me to interrupt you.

I agree with you about the Contraventions Act Fund. However, for the initiatives in support of access to justice in both official languages and for justice training, you were at 33% at the end of fiscal 2010-2011, whereas you should be at 60%.

[Andrée Duchesne]

With your permission, for the first year of the roadmap, we had vote 5 for the roadmap, respecting the training initiative, carried over to years 2, 3 and 4.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

All right.

In year 3, you did not even spend 10%. The same is true of years 2 and 3. So something is wrong with this program. It would be helpful to know why.

[Andrée Duchesne]

I could provide you with an explanation in writing, with your permission.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Madam.

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

I have one minute left. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

One moment, please.

Madame Duchesne, could you give the information to the clerk of the committee so I can have it distributed to all members?

You have time left for one brief question. Go ahead.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You said that matters were improving. I would like to have some proof of that. I don't have your text, but I will send you some comments when I find it.

Let's talk about the Beaulac case. That was a decision in which the Supreme Court held that the federal courts must have the institutional capacity to serve the public in the official language of their choice. Madam, could you give us some statistics on the bilingual capability of judges appointed since 2006?