Official Languages Committee on Oct. 25th, 2012

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Mr. Fraser. We have not seen each other in a few years.

You mentioned that this report was your sixth. I think I have been here for at least four or five of your reports. I have noticed that this report was much more positive than the first one, six years ago. Many improvements have been made, and I think we should rejoice at our successes. Your report mentions various successes around the country. I agree with you when it comes to the growth of bilingualism across the country, outside and inside Quebec. I think we should talk about a number of positive aspects.

You said that people could learn French or another language. You are a very good example of that. If memory serves me right, you started learning French at the age of 16.

[Graham Fraser]

It was actually at the age of 18 or 19.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think you were an exchange student at the time.

[Graham Fraser]

I actually learned French more through summer jobs. All my education was in English in Toronto.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

So you are my role model. As you know, I also learned French as an adult. So you are a very good example for me.

You mentioned that, in your opinion, a lot of progress has been made within departments. We have heard from the senior officials of several departments. They have a very demanding action plan. I think that's the explanation for the improvements within departments. Would you agree?

[Graham Fraser]

It is a very good sign when an organization has an action plan. When there is no action plan or no clear message to employees, they may have a wrong impression of the department's or the institution's commitment.

When we were conducting an assessment in an institution that had invested great efforts, as part of the Olympic Games, to ensure an active offer of services, we discovered through interviews with employees that they thought this effort was only being made during the Olympic Games. When we brought that to the management's attention, they were very surprised. They told us they had never said any such thing. Obviously, they had not made it clear to the employees that their responsibility in terms of active offer would be ongoing.

Sometimes, the message about the active offer is sent, but people don't know what to do when other information is requested in French. For a service to really be provided, certain measures must be taken. In many cases, the employees don't receive the message. It's not sufficiently well defined, and there is no structure that helps employees understand what it means to provide a service in both official languages.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I think it helps a lot when departments have an official languages champion.

[Graham Fraser]

Exactly. The champion network in departments is a key initiative.

[Guy Lauzon, Conservative, Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON]

I have two other short questions for you.

First, how do you define the term “bilingualism“?

This is your sixth report. Do you feel that many improvements have been made since your first report? I think that bilingualism and the promotion of both official languages have made tremendous strides across the country. What's your opinion on that?

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.

Please keep your answer brief, Mr. Fraser.

[Graham Fraser]

Based on the Treasury Board's figures, I think some progress has been made within the public service. In fact, between 92% and 93% of positions designated as bilingual are held by people who have passed tests. Does that mean that the language of work is truly respected in those departments? Do the people who have passed the test use both languages? It is more difficult to answer that question.

As for bilingualism in the country, as Mr. Dion showed, the status quo has been maintained. As far the definition of bilingualism goes, that is a term I shrink from using because it may mean all sorts of different things to different people. To me, being bilingual means having the ability to speak both official languages. The official bilingualism policy that applies to the government has to do with the government's ability to provide services in both official languages. It also involves giving public servants the right to work in the language of their choice in regions designated as bilingual.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Benskin, you have the floor.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

It's good to see you here, you and your colleagues.

I have two questions. I'll go with my first question first.

The government has recently decided that they're going to enter into agreements with the U.K. and share embassy duties. In my opinion—and I'm wondering if you share this opinion—whether or not there's a high percentage of French usage, I believe that in the spirit of what this country represents as a bilingual country, a country of linguistic duality, that should be represented, as you just said, in the official capacity.

I'm wondering if you feel that steps should be taken to make sure that there is access to French in what would be primarily anglophone-usage embassies?

[Graham Fraser]

Yes, I do.

In fact, when I saw the announcement of the agreement, I noticed that in contrast to the agreement that was reached with Australia in the past, there was no linguistic clause, so my first reaction was to phone the department and point out that there didn't appear to be any reference to language obligations. I was assured that this agreement was a framework agreement and that it would be followed up by a more detailed agreement on individual posts in which there would be language clauses to ensure that Canadians who would be dealing with Canadian matters within British offices would be assured of being able to get service in their language of choice.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Thank you.

I would think that in the overall framework of the image of this country, the language clauses would actually be in there. Maybe it would not be in detail, but the fact that there would be—

[Graham Fraser]

I was assured that they would be in detail once they got beyond the general agreement of understanding that was announced by Minister Baird and his British counterpart.

[Tyrone Benskin, NDP, Jeanne-Le Ber, QC]

Okay. Thank you.

I'll follow up with one of the statements that you made earlier in terms of how our two official languages are influenced by the influx of new arrivals who speak neither English nor French. I'm wondering about something from the census of Canada in 2011 that said 63.5% of the population whose mother tongue was neither English nor French reported speaking English at home.

In your opinion, what kind of steps need to be taken to ease access and encourage the adoption of both official languages outside of Quebec by new arrivals? New arrivals coming into Quebec do have to achieve a certain level of proficiency in being in Quebec, and access to French language courses is slightly easier in Quebec than in the rest of Canada.

I think having both languages and encouraging new arrivals to take on both languages gives them an opportunity that many Canadians miss, in that by having both languages, they can travel any part of this country, whether for work or for pleasure, and be able to communicate.

What would you suggest, or what would you encourage the government to do in terms of making sure that new arrivals outside of Quebec have more fluid access to both languages as far as learning is concerned?

[Graham Fraser]

I think that it's very important that there be close collaboration between Citizenship and Immigration, provincial governments, and local francophone organizations. I know that the Government of Manitoba was very disappointed when the provincial choice program was basically repatriated by the minister, because the Manitoba government had made a commitment to significantly increase the francophone immigration to Manitoba, and the initial experience had been very positive, in part because of the close collaboration between CIC, the Manitoba government, and the Société Franco-Manitobaine, which had a member organization called Accueil Francophone, which greeted francophone immigrants and refugees at the airport, accompanied them to temporary housing, enrolled their children in French language school, and also provided courses for them.

One of the things that has struck me, and we've done a number of forums on diversity across the country, is the degree to which immigrants who come to this country want to learn both official languages. They see the fact that Canada has two official languages as something that draws them to the country. They see learning both official languages as a part of acquiring a greater Canadian identity.

I think that there are a variety of ways in which the federal government can assist them in doing this.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Okay, thank you, Mr. Fraser.

Mr. Wilks is next.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, witnesses for being here today.

My French is coming, but it's a little slow. You can respond in the language of your choice, but I'll speak in English, if you don't mind.

[Graham Fraser]

Not at all.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

I wanted to focus in on something that in my riding is quite prevalent, and that's Parks Canada. I have four national parks in my riding, those being Kootenay, Yoho, Glacier, and Mount Revelstoke, and Waterton's not too far off. I must commend the staff of Parks Canada in western Canada that I'm familiar with for doing their best at providing both official languages.

However, I see in your report on pages 39 and 40 that you make nine recommendations to encourage Parks Canada to continue to improve on in this capacity, and you stated that you were satisfied with the action plan and timeframe proposed by Parks Canada to address eight of the recommendations.

I was wondering if you could expand on some of those recommendations, just so I have some understanding of them.

[Graham Fraser]

Yes. I'll probably ask Madame Charlebois to go into greater detail.

What we found was, on the one hand, as you say in reference to your riding, an exemplary use of active offer, of greeting people by saying, “Hello, bonjour”. Sometimes employees weren't quite sure how to handle things beyond that if they were not bilingual themselves, even though Parks Canada at the time of the Olympics had put out an excellent video for employees on precisely what to do if they were not bilingual but had somebody who was seeking information in the other language. It showed employees saying, “Un moment, s'il vous plaît”, and taking the phone, knowing where they could get in touch with a bilingual colleague. There were a number of other structural recommendations that we made.

Ghislaine, could you elaborate?

[Ghislaine Charlebois, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

One of them mainly was to make sure that Parks Canada consults with the communities as well to make sure that they meet their needs in terms of the programs they offer in the different parks. That was one.

Another was to make sure that when they enter into service agreements with different organizations that provide services for Parks Canada, they would make sure that they had the linguistic clauses in the agreements as well. I can provide you with a copy of the report with the recommendation if you want.

[David Wilks, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Yes, please.

Thank you.

Further to that, Mr. Chair, within the national parks we also have police services from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. I noted that was not in the report at all.

Have you made an observations with regard to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police and its ability to provide in both official languages? I'd like your comments on that.