Official Languages Committee on April 23rd, 2013

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Today is Tuesday, April 23, 2013, and I would like to welcome you to the 76th meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. We are here pursuant to Standing Order 108 for a study on second official language immersion programs in Canada.

Today we will be hearing from two groups. Ms. Adams represents the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board. We would also like to welcome Mr. Morrow and Ms. Ellwand, from the organization Canadian Youth for French.

Welcome to all of you.

We will begin with Ms. Adams.

[Dr. Jennifer Adams, Director of Education, Ottawa-Carleton District School Board]

Good afternoon to all of you. I am happy to be here with you. I am originally from Thunder Bay. With a family name like Adams, I never thought the day would come when I would have an opportunity to be making a presentation in front of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. I am tremendously pleased to have this opportunity.

I feel that the issue you are studying is very closely aligned with what we do on a daily basis in Ottawa's public schools. We therefore decided to share our ideas with you. I have provided you with a few copies of my document.

As you can see, there are 72,000 pupils in our school board. This is a very big school board. We have nearly 150 public schools, 120 at the elementary level and nearly 30 high schools.

Our mission is to educate students for success by inspiring learning and building citizenship using the pillars of well-being, engagement, learning, and leadership. One of the major platforms upon which that success sits is the provision of highly effective programs in French as a second language. Within a local, Canadian, and international context, the importance of achieving not only a comfort but also a proficiency in both official languages is fundamental to who we are as a school district.

Our school board provides several French as a second language programs. The first is a core program, which starts in pre-kindergarten and continues up until 12th grade, should students decide to continue. The other program is an immersion program. We have two immersion programs, meaning two entry points. The first program is for 5-year-old children in kindergarten, and the other entry point is a middle immersion program that begins in 4th grade. These are therefore two distinct programs.

Our immersion programs are offered at 110 of our 150 schools, so the immersion program is very popular. Approximately three out of every four of our schools have some type of an immersion program. Parents can choose between the two entry points that I mentioned.

Expansion of immersion programs in the OCDSB has continued in response to parent demand. Fifteen years ago, in 1998, the percentage of students in elementary immersion programs was 31%. Today over 47%, a total of 22,500 students, are enrolled in one of the district's two elementary immersion programs. I believe we have the largest immersion program in the country. The percentage of students enrolled in senior kindergarten early French immersion has risen to 62%. If we look at our kindergarten programs throughout the entire district, 62% of our kindergarten students are in that early immersion program. Early and middle programs in French immersion have experienced significant growth, which represents sustainability for both of these programs.

The OCDSB has experienced growth in the number of students enrolled in FSL programs, in the hours of instruction received, and in the range of subjects with French language instruction. Over the last five years, the number of elementary school students eligible for FSL funding in Ontario has risen by almost 1,500 students. Remarkably, the number of credits in French that secondary school students will earn this year is 1,700 credits higher than the number earned in the 2008-09 school year, with a total of almost 20,000 credits in French or subjects taught in French at the secondary level.

We believe our success has been predicated on some very important work that we've done in reviewing our programs. A number of years ago, the OCDSB, as the Standing Committee on Official Languages is doing now, contemplated a review of French immersion programs. In December 2006 an FSL review ad hoc committee, made up of three trustees from our organization, was established and tasked with developing a framework for a review of not only French immersion but also core French programs as well, including core French and immersion.

The objectives were to improve the effectiveness of delivery and instruction for FSL programs, to ensure that students throughout the school district have equitable access to FSL programs, to ensure that the programs are viable and sustainable, and to ensure that they're cost-effective.

There were two phases of the review. The elementary was done in 2007, and the secondary was done in 2009.

We did a massive review of literature. We conducted surveys with parents, secondary students, stakeholders, and administrative staff. As a result of these program reviews, I'll mention a couple of the actions or decisions that were taken.

First of all, at that time we decided to have two entry points for French immersion: early and middle. We've had a third entry point at the late, but the two later points had very small enrolments. To make sure we had programs that were close to where the children were living, we decided to go with two entry points.

We looked at core French and ensured that we had a quality core French program from junior kindergarten right through to grade 12. At this time we introduced a grade 12 French proficiency test. We began this as a pilot project, and we continue this three years later. It's a voluntary French proficiency test using the DELF, which some of you may have heard of, the diplôme d'études en langue française. The test is open to core French and French immersion students. In its first administration three years ago, 84 students opted to take the test. This year over 900 students have chosen to take the test. That's one-third of our grade 12 enrolment. We found from this that most of our participants in the French immersion program challenged the B2 level and were successful.

In the past three years, 1,700 students have left our system with a DELF certificate. The thing I would like to impress on you the most is that our focus has been on high-quality instructional practice and oral communication. What we've learned from these reviews and from the administration of this grade 12 proficiency test is that oral communication is a key piece. Whether they're coming from a core French background or from a French immersion background, children and students leaving our system have to be confident in their skills and willing to use these skills outside the classroom.

In summary, research shows that language learning is good for children. We are fortunate to live in a country that recognizes and celebrates the duality of our language heritage. Canada has an official languages policy that supports and encourages bilingualism. At the school district level, we see the support for that policy reflected in the context of parental demand for immersion programs.

In order to provide effective FSL programs that best meet the unique needs of each of our communities, school districts would benefit from two types of support from the federal government. The first is continued funding to the provinces to ensure that FSL programs continue to be offered throughout the country. The second is support for a national measure for proficiency in French to enhance our ability to have a national conversation about our progress toward becoming a bilingual nation. With this in mind, I respectfully offer the following three recommendations.

The first recommendation is that the federal government continue to have articulation agreements with the provinces to provide funding and support to FSL programs for school-age children. My comment on that recommendation is this. In Ontario, school districts offering FSL programs receive additional funds through FSL grants from the federal government that contribute to the feasibility of offering immersion programs. Districts with immersion programs may incur a variety of additional costs, including but not limited to staffing due to small program streams in dual-track schools, transportation, recruitment of teachers who are proficient French speakers, professional learning, and student resources.

The second recommendation is that the federal government explore the adoption of a national measure of language proficiency. My comments on this recommendation are these. Bilingualism has been a policy stance in Canada for almost a half century. The federal government has directed funding to the provinces to ensure the provision of French as a second language instruction to school-age children. From an accountability standpoint, it is reasonable to assume that Canadians would want to know the number of students graduating from Canadian high schools who are proficient in French, and to what level of proficiency. A national measure is required to be able to speak of student outcomes at the national level.

My final recommendation to you, the standing committee, is that the committee undertake a study on official language immersion schools with regard to access, capacity, waiting lists, best practices, and efficiencies.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you very much, Madam Adams.

Now we'll have an opening statement from Mr. Morrow.

[Justin Morrow, Founder and Executive Director, Canadian Youth for French]

Good afternoon. Thank you for this invitation to appear before you to participate in your study on immersion programs. I am very pleased to be here with you.

As you know, I am not a product of immersion, but 4 out of the 10 members of our board of directors are. I have therefore invited Ms. Calina Ellwand to help me with today's presentation. She could not unfortunately be away from work all day long, so she is with us thanks to the videoconference system.

Before going any further and giving Canadian Youth for French's opinion on the topic you are studying, I would like to turn the floor over to Calina, so she can give you her thoughts.

[Calina Ellwand, Member of the Board of Directors, Canadian Youth for French]

Thank you, Justin.

As Justin said, I am a member of the board of directors of Canadian Youth for French.

I'm also a product of Ontario's French immersion program, so I can and will be speaking from personal experience as someone who started my French immersion studies in kindergarten, continued through to high school, then on to university at the University of Ottawa. Thanks to a scholarship from Canadian Parents for French,I was able to study political science in French at U of O. I now continue to use my French on a daily basis through my work for a national non-profit that operates bilingually.

I joined the board of Canadian Youth For French in 2012 because I strongly believe in the organization's mandate to ensure that students have access to opportunities to enrich their French-language skills beyond high school. I would like to share my experience in the French immersion system because I feel very strongly about it, but I do feel there are three areas in particular where there could be improvement.

First, in terms of access, in my own experience living in Canada's largest city, growing up in Toronto, the closest French immersion school was never the most convenient option. This required considerable time spent on buses, on public transit, and of course there was the financial hardship that put on my family in order to pay for public transit to travel 45 minutes across the city.

I'm talking from my experience in Toronto. I know that across Canada it could be an even longer distance and higher costs incurred to get to the closest French immersion school. As a result, we see that most students in French immersion come from better-off families that can afford this additional cost.

Second, there are inconsistencies across Canada in terms of the quality of the teaching and the educational experience. I did some informal polling of my French immersion peers., and overall, we've all had very dedicated and supportive French immersion teachers who have contributed to our success. However, teachers' French-language skills are inconsistent across the system and in order to maintain the high calibre of French immersion programming, we need to ensure that we're training and hiring educators with strong French-language skills in order maintain high quality in the French immersion program.

Finally, in terms of students who want to work on their French beyond high school, there's a considerable loss of French. Again, from the small focus group of 11 French immersion students who are young adults who have now gone on to other things, 80% of them said their French had either become worse or stayed the same since leaving school, and only 20% said they had actually seen their French improve.

In order to not lose the energy and the resources that we're putting into French immersion, we need to put resources toward helping students who want to maintain their French beyond high school. I think that's where Canadian Youth For French can play an important role.

I will now pass it back to Justin to contribute to this commentary.

[Justin Morrow]

Thank you, Calina.

I would now like to take a few minutes to add a few things to what my colleague was saying.

First, I have to highlight the fact that although you are studying immersion schools and immersion studies, we must remember that immersion graduates, from our calculations, make up less than 5% of the total high school graduates in English Canada. Although there is a fairly large difference in their levels of French, core French graduates and those who dropped French at the earliest possible moment face many of the same challenges as immersion students do.

First, they don't truly understand the benefits of learning French as a second language. They know they can get paid more and there are more job opportunities and they can travel to French regions of the world, but they don't really understand why they get paid more. They don't understand why there are more jobs available to them, why French is an asset to their career, or what type of impact French can have on their personal development, and where French will come in handy, etc.

Second, they are very unaware of how many people around them actually speak French. For many of these young people, the only time they will ever hear French spoken before they leave high school is in the classroom. Never will they think that someone they meet in the street can also speak French, because everyone in their region simply speaks English anyway.

Next, as Calina touched on, the quality of teaching is lacking in many places around the country. It's not consistent perhaps is a better way to describe it. Sure, there are great immersion teachers, but there are also some not very good ones. The same is true in core French as well, so we're hitting all the things there.

The Canadian Association of Immersion Teachers

exists solely to support immersion teachers and we are sure they are well aware of this concern. Therefore, we're not going to talk more to this effect. We'll let them have the opportunity to do that for you.

I would like to say one thing, though. I was invited to participate in a round table hosted by Canadian Heritage in 2011 entitled, “Reflection on Future Actions With Respect to Official Languages in Education 2013 to 2018”. Many challenges were discussed, but there is one that remains fresh in my mind because I see it as a great opportunity.

SPEAQ, namely the Society for the Promotion of the Teaching of English as a Second Language in Quebec,

divulged that one of their biggest problems is and will continue to be the lack of qualified English teachers to teach their students. ACPI, the other organization, also made reference to the lack of qualified French teachers to teach their students.

On one hand, we have teachers with great abilities to speak French struggling to provide quality teaching in English in Quebec, and on the other hand, we have teachers with a great ability to speak English struggling to provide quality teaching in French throughout English Canada.

Why not create a simple teacher exchange at the beginning of the career to alleviate that and to help the English people get more fluent in their French abilities and the French get more fluent in their English abilities?

I am a good example of what can happen to someone who is completely immersed in the second language. My accent is not so bad. If we were to do that, the quality of French immersion teachers would increase.

From what I understood, this opportunity, however good it was, was out of the hands of those within Canadian Heritage because education is a provincial matter and they couldn't make the transition.

This being said, I don't see why the federal government wouldn't be able to encourage this opportunity by offering incentives such as grants, scholarships, subsidies, or whatever to make those exchanges happen.

I have another story for you. I'm not sure if I'm going to have enough time, but I'll try anyway. This will provide a segue from the first two points into the third point.

I was approached by a student at Western University who is a researcher. He was studying a literary review on why boys don't take French after grade 9. I asked him to share his thoughts with me, and he obliged by sharing with me the social stigma, the level of maturity, the other options that are available to them. As you've come to know from me, I took a slightly different approach to his question and I asked him to look at things differently.

What happens when our immersion students, or anyone for that matter, leave high school? What are the careers that they go forth to do? Most immersion graduates, a great majority of them, will become French teachers—French immersion teachers, core teachers, one or the other. The teacher market is normally dominated by women. More women go into that category. The young girls see the value of continuing their studies through to grade 12 because they know at the end they'll be able to become immersion teachers and have great lives, whereas for the young boy who doesn't really want to become a teacher, where's that career that he has to strive for with his French? Where's he going to go afterwards?

Again, it comes down to the post-secondary opportunities in French and what's available for a young person at the post-secondary level.

This is the third point. For years we've spent millions upon millions to ensure that as many children as possible obtain the best type of immersion education possible. If we've invested so much, so many resources into the study of immersion, I have to ask, why are we studying it again? Why are we back here studying more?

Canada founded immersion studies. We're the leader in immersion studies. We want to maintain our status as a leader. There are thousands of immersion teachers. There are many researchers studying immersion. When the whole francophone community talks about French in English Canada, they refer to the immersion students. It's all about immersion.

Obviously, you're going to hear that we need to improve immersion studies when all of these voices collectively are telling you that immersion is the way to go. We have to increase the amount of immersion, but I think it's pretty common knowledge that with all the research that has been performed, the level, the amount we can increase on the studies is only going to be marginal. We're not going to see a substantial increase in the number of bilingual Canadians or the capacity of English Canadians to speak French if we concentrate solely on immersion.

I've run out of time, but I strongly suggest that this committee and/or others, or researchers throughout the country begin to look at the post-secondary environment for anglophones wishing to learn French. What are the challenges? What are the opportunities available? What are the roadblocks? I think if we look at this question, we'll start to see that we can drastically increase our success.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Morrow.

We now have 70 minutes for questions and comments.

Mr. Godin, the floor is yours.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome you, Ms. Adams, Mr. Morrow and Ms. Ellwand.

The committee has decided to do a study on immersion. As we had already talked about second language teaching at the post-secondary level, such as, for example, in universities, I liked to hear Mr. Morrow talk about it.

We have a lot of questions to ask you, but I would like to know how you feel about one thing, in particular, with respect to universities. Perhaps you have already answered this question.

I will not hide the fact from you that I'm one of the people behind the bill to ensure that justices of the Supreme Court of Canada are bilingual, and the bill designed to ensure that parliamentary officers are bilingual. Even the universities supported us on this legislation. For example, the universities in Toronto and Vancouver told us that if the bill were adopted, they would then have the authority to tell their students that they need to learn the other official language if they have any desire to work at the Supreme Court of Canada, no matter where they happen to be.

In this fashion, students would have a goal to reach. Otherwise, they simply elect to take immersion courses without knowing too much about what is expected from them, and as you said, once the immersion course is over, they no longer are fluent in the second official language and lose their ability.

Do you not think that it is time that the government demonstrate leadership in certain areas, particularly with respect to public services?

Moreover, although the government is one of the largest employers in Canada, we see that it is not promoting both official languages in the universities. As an employer, the government should specify the type of employees that it is looking for, which would in turn help the universities make decisions.

In this respect, I must congratulate our chair, Mr. Michael Chong. Indeed, he really emphasized the need for universities to provide instruction in the second official language, because our country is supposed to provide services in both official languages.

Mr. Morrow, I would like to hear your comments on this issue.

[Justin Morrow]

Mr. Godin, I believe that there are two aspects to your question. Could I ask you to please repeat it?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

The question is too broad.

Indeed, from what you were saying, or perhaps it was Calina who said this, once grade 12 is over, many students are no longer fluent in the second official language, because they have not had an opportunity to speak it. Indeed, only 20% of them go on to speak the second official language. The others lose their ability to speak French.

Do you not feel that the government also has a role to play in promoting both official languages in the country? When I talk about promotion, I'm not saying that it should do this blindly. In my opinion, we need to create positions where bilingualism is essential. We must also do some promotion in the universities. Teaching the second language should not come to a halt in grade 12, but should be continued at the university level as well.

[Justin Morrow]

I fully agree with you. Your bill was great. I really liked it. Ideally, all positions in Canada should be bilingual, but that is impossible. However, it is a step in the right direction. That is putting greater pressure on universities so that they start preparing students to become bilingual.

But I want to make sure that we don't start imposing it too much. I've talked to a couple of my friends who are unilingual anglophones, and they see the advancement...because when the government comes in and they say that you have to do this and you have to do that, they get kind of scared and worried that they're going to lose their positions and stuff, and it's going to create conflict between the French and English communities again. It could be a little bit more difficult.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Don't they have the responsibility to advise the people that certain jobs are bilingual, and if they want them, then they should get into them? It doesn't matter if they're French or English. It doesn't matter who they are. It's the same thing for the francophones. If they want certain jobs, and if we're going to serve the people in both languages, then promote that. They are the biggest employer in the country so they should promote that. That's what I was looking at.

[Justin Morrow]

I think Calina has something to say.

[Dr. Jennifer Adams]

Actually, I would like to answer that question.

According to what our program reviews and assessments indicate, even before knowing what students will do after high school, they have to be motivated to continue studying French until the end of their studies. In addition, we have to ensure that the quality of the teaching is high enough so that, when the students graduate from high school, they can enter the workplace or universities and colleges with a level that is advanced enough to allow them to access these programs and positions. If all the positions are already officially designated as bilingual and there is a significant gap between the skills in the people applying for these jobs, things will be even more complicated.

I should highlight two things from our program assessments.

First, we assess what is done in the classrooms to motivate students to stick with their studies. We discovered that it was linked to oral communication. You brought up a point about boys and girls. Since we started taking into consideration teaching in the classroom, namely teaching methods, many more boys are taking these classes in grades 11 and 12. That's the first thing.

We also discovered something else. When we decided to implement the exam at the end of grade 12, all the students saw that they had an objective: they wanted to obtain the certificate based on their oral and written skills, among others.

With these results, we can see what we will prioritize. We will know how many more students could be motivated to continue learning French. All of this is in combination with what is done at the university level and in the workplace. You have to have these two elements.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

When it comes to education, it's a bit of a delicate situation because this is a provincial jurisdiction. When you say that teachers should be better trained and so on, do you think this falls under federal jurisdiction? Otherwise, would you say that you need the federal government to assist the provinces in providing more funding for education?

[Dr. Jennifer Adams]

That's why I included my first two recommendations, knowing that the provinces and the federal government both have a role to play.

The immersion and core language programs in the provinces would be impossible without the funding provided by the federal government to the provinces. For example, our school board, which is located in Ontario, receives additional funding for all students in immersion and core language programs. We would not be able to provide these programs if the funding was not available. My recommendation states that it is essential that the federal government continue to provide this money to the provinces.

Regarding the second missing element, that is, measurement criteria, I believe you could play a role. We began looking at that through a pilot project in our school board. Today, our tool is used in a number of provinces.

I know that

the Council of Ministers of Education

had talked about

Common European Framework of Reference for Languages.

The idea here is to have standards so that we can define the level of proficiency. Having common standards would, in my opinion, help the federal bilingualism policy.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Ms. Adams.

Mr. Galipeau, you have the floor.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to welcome you both.

Ms. Adams, I am quite impressed by the quality of your French.

So where did you go to French immersion? You learned on your mother's knee?

[Dr. Jennifer Adams]

No, my mother is anglophone as well. I have no French background. My family name is Adams, and I come from Thunder Bay. I began core French in grade 5, twice a week, I think.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

Wow. So you just put a lot of will into it. Congratulations.

Mr. Morrow made reference earlier to—I don't know what word you use in English and I heard it in French—décrochage. What's the word in English?

[A voice]

The dropout rate.

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

It was the dropout rate in the French immersion area, and I suppose that statistic made sense generally.

In Ottawa, what's the statistic here?

[Dr. Jennifer Adams]

It's a good question.

What I will do is leave copies of the three studies we've done with the committee. They're very comprehensive studies. I would argue that they're probably the most conclusive studies that—

[Royal Galipeau, Conservative, Ottawa—Orléans, ON]

You're telling me it's a good question, and if I look at these three thick books there, I'll find the answer?

[Dr. Jennifer Adams]

No, I'm going to give you the answer.

We have a certain attrition rate at the end of each of the years. When we look at the overall numbers.... Because we have it starting right from kindergarten, there's a certain percentage that do move into different programs, whether it's an English program or one of our alternative or special education programs.

I don't have the statistic off the top of my head, but that information is here.