Official Languages Committee on March 10th, 2015

[Ida Kamariza]

Yes. These immigrants take part in all of our activities. They register their children in the schools and they take part in all the activities of francophone life. In fact, even if they work in English, they live in French. This is all to the advantage of the francophone community.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Kamariza.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Gourde.

Mr. Nicholls, you now have the floor.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. d'Entremont, you said that you would like to see the demographic weight preserved in New Brunswick.

Are you aware there's a StatsCan warning box saying that on census data, “Data users are advised to exercise caution when evaluating trends related to mother tongue and home language that compare 2011 Census data to that of previous censuses”? This is because of the changes to the way that this census was done and the abolition of the long-form census.

Here's my question for you. On the data we have, are they reliable enough to use to go towards the preservation of the demographic weight in New Brunswick?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I would say that as commissioner I have been looking at population trend data over not just the last 10 years, but over five decades anyway. In New Brunswick, it shouldn't be a big surprise. Our population in terms of demographic breakdown, in terms of linguistic community, has been pretty steady, so it wouldn't be just in the last census that anything different happened. The 33% is over many decades, and there are different variables. I'm well aware of those, such as mother tongue and first official language. We look at all of that. I take the long view—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

But going forward—

[Katherine d'Entremont]

—and I take the go-forward long view as well in terms of.... It's for the people who come to New Brunswick, the new immigrants, that the information is captured by the provincial government departments, so—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

The provincial government departments are doing data collection. Is that right? Does this doubling of work make sense for New Brunswick taxpayers, in that the province has to do what the federal government is not doing anymore?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

I believe you may have misunderstood.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Okay.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

The New Brunswick government does not do census data collection. I mean that for the new immigrants to New Brunswick, the provincial government of course knows which new immigrants—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Yes.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

—are francophone first language, anglophone, neither, etc. It's not a duplication of census; it's pertaining to immigrants. The data that we have looked at in our office is over the past several years. Of recent immigration patterns, the 12% is fairly consistent, which is a far cry from the 33%. With respect to the 33% long-standing demographic balance in New Brunswick, it's pretty much a third and two-thirds, so—

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

But going forward, with the abolition of the long-form census, how will we know that you've avoided the risk of assimilation if we don't have reliable data about home language and mother tongue? For these new immigrants arriving today, we won't know 10 or 20 years down the road, say, if they have maintained French as the home language. Would you not recommend to the federal government that they return to a more reliable data collection?

[Katherine d'Entremont]

Mr. Nicholls, I have not examined in any depth yet the effects of changes of the long form and the short form. It may be something that I turn my attention to. I'm in the second year of a seven-year mandate as commissioner, so thank you for the question. If it is something that I think New Brunswick should be concerned with, I will certainly make recommendations at the appropriate time.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Ms. Kamariza, if you are able to discuss the matter of data, the risk of assimilation and also to answer the question put by my colleague, and I am going to let you do so.

[Ida Kamariza]

I would like to go back to the question regarding data collected through the International Household Survey. There is a risk that the data collected there may not be reliable. Earlier I gave as an example the exercise we did to determine how many immigrants from Quebec settle each year in Alberta. However that figure is two times lower than the one indicated by the statistics in our francophone reception and settlement centres. This means that these data are not providing accurate information. Even if there are cases of assimilation, we will not be able to identify them if we use that data collection tool.

As for your colleague's question on the Francophone Significant Benefit Program, its termination puts us at a huge disadvantage. Indeed, as I was saying earlier, it was like a carrot that encouraged employers to hire temporary foreign workers.

Among the mobilization efforts we made, there were liaison tours in cooperation with the FCFA and the Canadian Embassy in France. We invited employers to come to an information session. Now, however, when we invite them, they answer politely that they are very busy, but we can see that they are no longer interested.

In short, this incentive we had has unfortunately disappeared. There is now no longer any incentive to really allow them to benefit from economic immigration, which is the current trend.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Ms. St-Denis, you now have the floor.

[Lise St-Denis, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

First I would like to ask Ms. d'Entremont what type of complaints she receives in New Brunswick regarding the use of French.

I would then like to ask Ms. Kamariza if the attitude of the provincial government is positive concerning the federal action plan and francophone immigration.

[Katherine d'Entremont]

Thank you.

We get all sort of complaints in New Brunswick. Each citizen has the right to be served in the official language of his or her choice, throughout the province, regardless of numbers. The complaints we receive concerning the lack of services in French often involve the lack of personal service, for instance when someone goes to a government office.

There's also the matter of active offer. Under the law, the services must be provided, but they must also be offered by the employee, just like at the federal level. There's also the lack of telephone services. Sometimes people complain that documents are not available in one language or the other. These are all complaints that are also heard at the federal level.

The complaints from anglophones are rarer, but there are in fact francophone communities where service in English is not always available. We hear from both sides, but most of the complaints concerning the lack of services are made by francophones.

[Ida Kamariza]

As for the interest our province has in francophone immigration, that is quite an interesting question. The attempts we have made to encourage cooperation from the province regarding francophone immigration have not always met with great interest.

That said, we appreciate the small sum that is allocated to one of Edmonton's reception and settlement centres. However, the province could do more to support francophone immigration. That is why throughout my presentation I have repeated that we are worried about the important responsibility that is entrusted to employers as well as to the provinces and territories, even though they are not subject to linguistic obligations at this time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Are there any other comments or questions?

Mrs. Day, you have the floor.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I would like some additional information, so I will not use all of my five minutes.

In Quebec, most of the population is French-speaking. Moreover, there is a migration toward the western provinces, Alberta being one of these. Often, these are young people who are looking for work. Since the unemployment rate is about 14%, it is advantageous to go somewhere where there is work. They leave to settle elsewhere, even if they don't speak English. They are hired by English-speaking employers, who explain the work to them with all kinds of gestures. Often it is repetitive work, for instance road work or manual labour. Gradually, they are assimilated. Does this correspond to the profile of our young people who go to settle in your province?

My second question is about the Express Entry system. Earlier, I did not have time to finish what I wanted to say. We have not yet received the figures, as the commissioner said earlier, but I believe that the Express Entry will give precedence to anglophone immigrants.

If we give precedence to a certain category of people, if you were not consulted, if the need to include a third of francophones in the Express Entry system was not taken into account, and if we are furthering the immigration of people who entered the country thanks to this system, are we not in this way creating a new imbalance between the francophones and anglophones in our country?

[Ida Kamariza]

As for the young people who come to Alberta, I would say there are two categories, depending on the work they do.

Those who work in the trades can do that work, even if they don't speak English very well. Often, their employer assigns them to a supervisor who speaks both languages, so that that person can give them work instruction in the language they understand best. In spite of everything, those young people will tend to get assimilated, because they won't see any benefit in speaking French.

I'll go back to the question put by your colleague about the interest the province has in francophone immigration. We have taken steps to offer English classes in francophone environments so that these people, even if they learn English, stay in touch with the francophone community. We have already begun taking steps to do that, but this has not been successful up till now.

I apologize, but I forgot the topic of your second question.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

It was about the Express Entry system. If anglophones are chosen, mostly, and if immigration favours those who have gone through that system, what will happen? We understood that the employers have been consulted, but that you were not. What is going to happen? In Canada, will anglophone immigrants always be in the majority?