Official Languages Committee on March 12th, 2015

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Welcome to the 41st meeting of the Standing Committee on Official Languages. Today is Thursday, March 12, 2015.

We are here pursuant to Standing Order 108 to study the Government of Canada programs designed to promote francophone immigration into Canada's official-language minority communities.

We have two witnesses appearing today. Gilles LeVasseur is a professor with the Telfer School of Management at the University of Ottawa. He will be joining us shortly. We will also hear from Robert Therrien, the executive director of the Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan. He will take part in the meeting by teleconference from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan.

Mr. Therrien, you have the floor.

[Robert Therrien, Executive Director, Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

[Robert Therrien]

I assume I can start my presentation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Robert Therrien]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I am the executive director of the Conseil de la coopération de la Saskatchewan. This francophone economic organization provides economic development services to businesses and communities.

Business development means creating, maintaining and supporting businesses, as well as a new component, which is supporting the workforce because of the economic situation in Saskatchewan and the province's current labour needs.

With respect to francophones, the population in our province is aging. This is true not only of francophones, but also of everyone. It is clear that we have to meet some glaring labour needs.

We recently conducted a study on potential economic immigration to support francophone minority communities, particularly in Saskatchewan. The results of the study showed that there are needs not just in Saskatchewan, but throughout Canada. We need to be able to support these communities.

I'll give you an example. In 2012 in Saskatchewan, there were nearly 10,000 job offers for temporary foreign workers. Of these 10,000 jobs, there were barely a hundred francophones.

We think that the new express entry system and the new way of bringing immigrants to Canada is an opportunity to strengthen francophone communities by providing support to businesses in order to improve not only the situation of francophones in the province but also across the provincial economy in terms of our schools and so on.

We know that when people arrive in Saskatchewan, if we want to retain them, we need to be able to provide a framework to help them integrate, settle in and so on. There also needs to be an economic integration process. This is done two ways: through the labour market or through business or other creation.

We think it is very important for francophone communities to have the resources to help employers in this respect. I'm not talking about francophone employers, but anglophone employers who are willing to hire francophones so that they can settle here, in Canada. To do this, there are a large number of businesses in Canada, and the micro-enterprises are major employers in this regard. According to some statistics that we saw recently, close to 50% of the 10,000 job applications in 2012 that I mentioned are from micro-enterprises that were looking for temporary foreign workers.

For us, that means not only being involved in the local and provincial economy, but also providing our growing community with an opportunity to improve their French. We also believe that micro-enterprises are the ones that have the fewest resources to do all the work necessary to take care of the paperwork, guidance and so on. Small businesses have fewer human resources than many others. So we would like to contribute at that level. To increase the number of francophones in the regions, these businesses need to be supported through a preparation and selection process to bring francophones to a given region.

Our organization does this broadly. It seems fairly simple, but all the work we have to do to provide businesses with guidance and support requires resources and tools to ensure the success of our initiatives.

I could give you some detailed statistics, but it isn't easy by telephone.

I'm just in Saskatoon for a staff meeting. We had a presentation on this. Throughout the day, I was thinking about the best way to provide specialized services to businesses by transferring knowledge to them so that they can stand on their own and welcome immigrants.

You caught me a little by surprise because I didn't think I was going to be the first presenter. I thought there would be a round table first.

In short, that's what I wanted to say on the topic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you.

Mr. LeVasseur, you have the floor.

[Gilles LeVasseur, Professor, Telfer School of Management, University of Ottawa, As an Individual]

Good afternoon, everyone.

Before I start I actually did write a paper in the French language. It was not translated, but I can answer any questions in both official languages. I know I was told we had to have it in both official languages to be distributed, so I would like to apologize for that. I will read my paper in the French language and then I can answer questions in any language.

My name is Gilles LeVasseur. I'm honoured to testify before the committee on francophone immigration and Canada's linguistic duality. I'm pleased to speak to you about this because I have been very much involved for over 30 years in everything relating to Canada's linguistic duality and official-language minority rights in Canada.

I have prepared a presentation that will last 10 minutes. However, if the committee would like, I would be pleased to present a supplementary text to provide more details on the points I will have presented. I have condensed all the ideas in this text by presenting principles, findings and recommendations. I went straight for the conclusions by considering stated principles and findings.

Linguistic duality is a fundamental feature of the Canadian identity. We need to do what it takes to ensure that this feature continues to define and enrich us as a society. Canada's linguistic duality is a dominant trait of our international image, and it is our duty to do what it takes so that this Canadian value can prosper across Canada.

I would now like to talk about the principles connected to linguistic duality.

Canada's linguistic duality is a fundamental characteristic of our society and is dependent on the following principles.

First, there needs to be demographic growth that allows for a balance between Canada's two main linguistic communities. This includes an immigration policy that recognizes the importance of linguistic duality as a fundamental standard in Canada and that is supported by administrative and financial measures so that government entities, including the Government of Canada, can act effectively to maintain this typically Canadian social value.

Second, we need to promote the economic aspect of official languages to allow Canadians and newcomers to fully identify with linguistic duality and to develop positive identity reactions toward both official-language communities. Newcomers must also be made aware of official-language minority communities so that they can make language and identity choices that are in the interest of Canada's public immigration policies.

Third, there needs to be a recognition and willingness by various levels of government, starting with the Government of Canada, to promote linguistic duality. This includes protecting and promoting official-language minorities with an immigration policy built on respect for the demographic weight of official-language communities to ensure the growth and development of these communities.

The fourth and last principle is that there needs to be cooperation between the different levels of government so that newcomers can be integrated in a way that respects linguistic duality in Canada and avoids linguistic polarization in regions across Canada.

Those were the four basic principles.

Let's move on now to the findings relating to immigration and linguistic duality.

We are certainly disappointed to see that immigration in Canada has not helped to maintain, or even increase, the demographic weight of official-language minority communities. This situation stems from the following findings.

There aren't enough resources to properly select newcomers with an adequate knowledge of both official languages, particularly those speaking French. This lack also means that the federal government is slow to act on respecting the demographic weight of official-language minority communities.

The second finding concerned the lack of integration of newcomers into official-language minority communities, including a lack of infrastructures and mechanisms that would allow them to participate fully in the minority group.

The third finding is that there is a lack of promotion of these official-language minority communities among newcomers, which develops their desire to join the majority group, mainly for economic reasons. Initially, newcomers are looking for a better quality of life in Canada, which includes better economic conditions. However, if we don't promote knowledge of both official languages, newcomers will tend to join the majority group, thus limiting their capacity to become interested in the minority group.

The fourth finding is that there is a lack of support from the official-language minority communities for government approaches to properly support and integrate newcomers.

The last finding is that a stronger government approach would require selecting newcomers for official-language minority communities so that the outcome of immigrant selection would maintain the demographic weight of these communities.

Now, what solutions and recommendations can we present based on these principles and findings?

I will present four main recommendations that fall under the Government of Canada's jurisdiction.

First, the different levels of government need to integrate immigration policies and methods to better support and integrate newcomers in official-language minority communities. Once newcomers have been selected, the Government of Canada must work with the provinces so that newcomers can be integrated into official-language communities as soon as they arrive in Canada. Too often, newcomers are left on their own and have to make choices without understanding the Canadian issues and the importance of Canada's duality. The Government of Canada must help newcomers in their steps toward integrating into Canadian society.

Second, we need to look favourably on the ability of newcomers, as they work toward obtaining permanent resident status and Canadian citizenship, to enrol in an educational institution in an official-language community and to learn an official language in a minority environment. The education system is an excellent way to get newcomers to appreciate the official-language minority communities and to learn both official languages quickly. Willingness to enrol in an educational institution in a minority community would be worth additional points for newcomers in the newcomer selection process.

Here's an example. A newcomer arriving in Ottawa will receive a more favourable assessment if officials consider his registration at Cité collégiale because he wants to be able to operate in a francophone setting and obtain his resident status or citizenship. In addition, if immigrants send their children to French school or French immersion, that must also be considered. The goal is explain linguistic duality properly and to maintain knowledge among immigrants of Canada's commitment to both official language communities. Immigrants need to be able to understand what makes up Canadian society. If a foreigner who comes to Canada for economic reasons and wants a better life is not aware of the issues, that individual cannot develop this relationship.

Third, we need to establish selection objectives for newcomers where 10% of them would have an immediate capacity to communicate effectively and efficiently, considering the requirement that they settle in official-language minority communities. We need to increase the percentage of newcomers who can speak French so that the demographic weight of francophones outside Quebec is maintained and so that linguistic duality continues to be a vibrant value for all Canadians.

Fourth, we need to create intervention areas in large urban cities to support newcomers and direct them to services for official-language minorities. Often, urban centres do not have a concentration of individuals who speak the minority language, so that the newcomer is automatically immersed in the majority group and loses contact with the linguistic minority group. The intervention must include information about learning official languages in the intervention area, including cultural and economic services.

Take the most classic example of the number of francophones who settle in Toronto.

I was born in Toronto. I'm from North York. We are spread out in my neighbourhood. Since the city has over five million residents, francophones are spread out and choose places where there are economic advantages. Out of necessity, they develop the reflex to operate in the majority group's language, which is totally legitimate. However, people aren't exposed to francophone groups.

Francophones send their children to English school because it's what they know. It isn't because they don't want to speak French, but rather because we don't guide, integrate and support them in that. It's in this context that we are giving priority to certain intervention areas. We cannot possibly cover all of Canada, but we can decide to cover certain regions and, gradually, ensure that the percentage of the demographic weight is based on what we are seeking as francophones outside Quebec.

To conclude, I will say that we have a duty to act. Immigration is an essential tool for developing Canada's special identity, which includes the vibrant presence of official-language minority communities.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. LeVasseur.

We'll begin with Mr. Nicholls.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would also like to thank the witnesses for being here today. Their presentations were very interesting, and they provided us with a lot of information.

Unfortunately, the public will never know about the criticisms of the government and the good suggestions it disagrees with. In all likelihood, the solutions suggested that go against the government's policies will be deleted at the report stage. Still, I would like to thank you for your comments.

Today, for instance, we are going to try again to table a report on immigration. It was tabled previously. It's a unanimous report that was drafted with taxpayer money, and it was never made public. We are hoping that the government will not decide to go in-camera to hide the report from the public. But that's how things go with the Conservatives, here at the Standing Committee on Official Languages.

My first question concerns the Destination Canada program and is for Mr. Therrien.

Was your organization invited to the Destination Canada fair this year?

[Robert Therrien]

We received an invitation by email, but it was limited. We had to cover our own expenses. We don't necessarily have the resources, since we are a non-profit services organization. Given the funding we receive, we don't have the right to provide services like international trips. The cost for one day for Destination Canada, which is about $6,000 or $7,000 a person, isn't covered. So we didn't have the resources to take part in this event.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

That's unfortunate.

The Destination Canada website indicates that Air Canada is one of the partners. According to the Commissioner of Official Languages, Air Canada is one of the worst delinquents when it comes to official languages. Perhaps Air Canada could show some good will and fund your trip to Destination Canada, but that's another story.

I want to speak about your organization's funding in general. You said that you needed resources to provide services. Do you currently have enough funding to meet your needs?

[Robert Therrien]

No. We currently receive funding from Citizenship and Immigration Canada, which is used to pay the salary of a single person. That person covers the entire province, specifically in the area of immigration. This involves providing recruiting support to businesses as well as guidance to help businesses recruit employees.

We receive funding from other departments. For instance, Western Economic Diversification Canada enables us to provide certain services related to creating businesses, but the problem is that three people have to cover the entire province. This involves more than just supporting business development; it involves supporting community economic development, too. We receive funding from that department for all projects from communities.

Lastly, Employment and Social Development Canada provides funding for the economic development of our communities. We have only one person who deals specifically with immigration.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Do you think the service provided is equal in quality to what is offered to the majority group?

[Robert Therrien]

Absolutely not. When I look at the resources awarded to the province’s majority group, I see that it has 100 times more resources that we can have.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. LeVasseur, you spoke about the demographic weight of francophone groups. Given that there have been changes since the 2011 census, do you think that the data is fairly reliable to be able to identify this demographic weight?

[Gilles LeVasseur]

I think you’re asking me if we can trust the statistics that were collected in the last census to determine our demographic weight. The question is whether the right questions were asked. That’s the first thing. Very often, a few much more specific questions should be added for official-language minorities.

Often the problem that we see when we look at the statistical data is that it doesn't necessarily reflect the entire demographic reality with respect to the changes that occur in an official-language minority community. On the one hand, the population does a lot of moving and shifting and, on the other, we see that there is a lot of exogamy. This means that the answer will often change depending on how it is expressed in a survey.

A few questions should be reviewed in order to obtain more specific information about the relationship between immigration, the demographic weight and the use of the language in the community once someone has integrated into Canadian society.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Right.

Would you recommend that the government again include questions about the language of work in the census?

[Gilles LeVasseur]

Questions about the language of work promote the language in an economic perspective. It is important to fully understand that a language develops and grows over the long term if it thrives economically. If this economic growth can’t occur, the language becomes an object of communication, ethnicity and culture, but it does not have this weight because it isn’t economically profitable. That’s why the concept of the language of work becomes a tool in this context to give a more formal value to speaking a given language in a minority environment.

[Jamie Nicholls, NDP, Vaudreuil—Soulanges, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Therrien, I have another question for you.

Do you have any recommendations for the federal government in order to improve its consultations?

[Robert Therrien]

I can say honestly that I took part in consultations this week with the Department of Citizenship and Immigration on how to better work with the department to improve francophone economic immigration. I can say that there has been a change. I firmly believe that this change has been happening for a few months, if not a year and a half. The department is connecting with the community.

Are there enough consultations? The consultations have indeed taken place, but it's in the action, the policies and the programs that we can see what kind of influence these consultations have had. In the coming years, we'll see just how seriously we were taken during these consultations. We will see what kind of impact we will have to improve the services provided to our fellow Canadians and to our businesses to increase the number of francophone immigrants to the country.

[The Chair, Conservative, Michael Chong]

Thank you, Mr. Therrien.

Mr. Gourde, you're next.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank our two witnesses for being here today.

My first question has to do with francophone immigration.

The last witnesses who appeared this week mentioned that interprovincial immigration seemed to be more successful. Francophones from Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia go and work in the west. However, we seem to have more difficulty with immigrants from other countries when it comes to going directly to official-language minority communities in the western provinces.

This most certainly involves economic immigration. People go to a region to work and have a good job. Do these people have difficulty integrating into official-language minority communities because they live in remote regions and are too spread out? Do these communities have the leadership they need to promote what they are, how they live and the services they offer? Perhaps it would enable them to reach out to people who are immigrating and move closer to their community to create this community life.

I could start with Mr. LeVasseur and then move on to Mr. Therrien.

[Gilles LeVasseur]

Your question has four aspects, and I'd like to touch on them.

First, someone who immigrates to Canada does not always understand Canada's complex identity and, therefore, doesn't fully understand this idea of official-language communities.

For instance, if someone speaks Russian or German and immigrates to Germany, that person does not necessarily understand all the complexities of that country. Immigrants want to go to a foreign country to have a better quality of life. It isn't the immigrant's fault for not understanding that reality. Immigrants are doing what anyone would do, which is to improve their situation. That's why people come to Canada, a country that offers a quality of life that is available in very few countries. Our system is extraordinary and works well.

Second, quite often newcomers will work in urban settings. They will go and work where there is the largest demographic weight of their own community. They identify with their group. If their groups speaks the common language—English for example—they won't seek out French, a language they don't identify with. Francophones outside Quebec have progressed mainly because of two things: Quebec francophone immigration to certain regions of New Brunswick and French immersion. These were the two main gains for francophones. They helped maintain this idea of communicating in French.

Third, there isn't a guidance system that helps immigrants function and get services. There is nothing that directs them to what is called the community of the other official language. If newcomers integrate into the francophone setting outside Quebec, it's because they really are francophones and can't speak another language. This may be the case for Africans from Congo, the Central African Republic, Burkina Faso or Mali. They don't speak English, so they immediately go to where there are French speakers since it is the only language they understand. However, if individuals are linguistically mobile, they can go elsewhere. That's where the problem lies. They don't choose the official-language minority community because they don't know it exists, not because they don't like it.

Fourth, let's talk about the community associations that Canadian Heritage funds through its various programs. The agreements between the communities and the federal government also need to develop a component so that the official-language communities and the associations can create institutions, organizations and components that support these aspects. Too often, we expect the government to do all the work. That doesn't mean that the government can't help, but it needs to support the development of other systems that could work in parallel and that would do excellent work.

I'll give you a simple example. I was the chair of the Conseil de la coopération de l'Ontario for five years. The conseil has run the youth Canada works program for several years. It administers a program and is subjected to audits. The agreement is renewed every three years because the numbers are good and the data is there. It funds the creation of summer jobs in both official languages. Isn't that something to consider? In some regions, these communities and these organizations could work on integrating immigrants, grouping them together, supporting them, helping them and enrolling them in college and university. We would then have a mechanism where the government would give its support, but would not be required to run the whole thing. There would be the responsibility of the communities themselves through a system for exchanges between the government, the immigration system and the associations. That option exists.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Mr. Therrien, your comments?