Official Languages Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Will you have the opportunity to review the list of qualitative criteria before it goes to the Governor in Council and before cabinet makes its final decision?

[Raymond Théberge]

No.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

It would certainly be a good thing if you were able to review the list. The same goes for us, the committee members. We could even meet to study the matter.

Switching gears, I want to say that words matter. You urged the government to undertake a “meaningful modernization of the Official Languages Act”. Are you concerned that any modernization of the act will merely be superficial? What would constitute a “meaningful modernization” of the act?

[Raymond Théberge]

Anytime there is talk of modernizing legislation, we always worry that our expectations and those of the community will not necessarily line up with those of the government in power.

What I mean by “meaningful modernization” is that the first step has to be understanding what the flaws in the existing act are and, then, figuring out how the act can ensure communities' development and future in a meaningful way. The only way to do that is to make major changes, whether that means changing the regulatory framework associated with part VII or better aligning parts IV and V. Those kinds of changes will affect how federal institutions operate, to be sure. All that to say, the modernization must bring about real change.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

I have one last question. No matter what people say, the proportion of francophones in Canada is continuing to drop. Twenty or so years ago, we made up 25% of the population, but today, we account for just 23%. That's alarming to me because the notion of our founding peoples is fundamental to the country. Will francophones disappear altogether one day? I don't think so, because of Quebec.

Under the immigration plan, 4.4% of newcomers are supposed to be French-speaking. I would call it a theoretical target, one that takes serious political leadership. If I was immigration minister, I would immediately tell my staff that the mandatory target for next year was 5%. It wouldn't just be a theoretical number. Were you involved in the discussions leading up to that plan? What are your thoughts?

I am being absolutely serious when I say that we have to bring French speakers into the country. The situation is dire.

[Raymond Théberge]

I had a very productive meeting on the subject with the minister and some members of his team, who confirmed to me that he was taking action but that the targets weren't being met. As long as we continue to fall short of the targets, the proportion of francophones in Canada will continue to decline, as you pointed out.

The number of francophones is far lower than their demographic weight. That demographic weight has to be kept up, and for that reason, we will continue to hold discussions with Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada officials. We want to make sure that the department follows through on the plan. Although, some progress has been made, mainly through the express entry system and the francophone mobility program, the targets haven't been met, and the department is very much aware of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

We'll go now to Emmanuella Lambropoulos.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much for being here with us today.

I am new to this committee, too. As you can hear and see, I bring a different perspective.

I would like to ask you about the report. In the report, you mention that the QCGN and English-speaking Quebeckers raised concerns that they aren't always able to find work in federal civil service. We know that the percentage of anglophone Quebeckers is much higher than the percentage of anglophone Quebeckers working in federal service within Quebec, so there's clearly a disparity there.

I'd like to know what changes you can recommend to make part XI of the act clearer for stakeholders to understand.

[Raymond Théberge]

Work has been done with the federal council in Montreal to try to encourage greater participation of English-speaking Quebeckers in the federal public service. That's on the table. I think there are also a lot of other issues right now around the English-speaking minority in Quebec which we have to look at.

We had somebody working one day per week on a project to try to increase the participation rate of anglophone speakers in the public service. It's a challenge. Our colleagues in the departments are aware of that.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you very much.

I would imagine a lot of these offices are in regions outside of Montreal, where there are fewer anglophone Quebeckers. What are some ways that we can attract or promote these jobs for the anglophone Quebeckers?

[Raymond Théberge]

The strategy is always to try to attract locally. As you well know, attracting people from other areas could be a challenge on the North Shore and a few other places. It's important that the recruitment process happen within those communities and that we make sure that the skill sets are available in those communities to carry out the work.

One of the challenges in some of these remote areas is the fact that the population is declining. People are moving to larger centres, so we have to retain the people who are there.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

As you know, our committee will be looking into the action plan and trying to make changes to it. Unfortunately, the aspects that we will be reviewing—early childhood, immigration and justice—are mostly in the control of the provincial government. How can we ensure that these changes also improve the rights and access to services of anglophone Quebeckers?

We're not exactly sure what direction the current provincial government may take. What are some protections that anglophone Quebeckers will have through this action plan?

[Raymond Théberge]

One of the things that are important to retain is that in the areas of health and education, for example, even if they are of exclusive provincial jurisdiction, there are important federal contributions to those programs. It is very important that we have the kinds of agreements—we were talking earlier about linguistic clauses—that ensure the English-speaking minority of Quebec gets access to their services, whether it's health care, education or justice. There are new dollars in the new action plan specifically for the English-speaking minority in Quebec.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

For my last question, even though you've answered it a bit, I'd like us to realize that at one point the federal civil service and the people who work in these federal agencies within Quebec are perhaps in some ways the problem as to why more anglophones aren't working in these areas.

How can we make the act hold people more accountable for following the rules and following what's said in the act? As my colleague mentioned earlier, official minorities need a watchdog. You act as that watchdog. What would you recommend to make it better for minorities?

[Raymond Théberge]

I think that in section 5 of the act, which deals with language of work, we have to better define the obligations of the act and make sure they're enforceable.

[Emmanuella Lambropoulos, Liberal, Saint-Laurent, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Lambropoulos.

It is now Mr. Choquette's turn.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Already?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Yes, already.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to skip my turn, if I may.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Very well.

We now move on to Darrell Samson.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Commissioner, I'd like to discuss the 50th anniversary of the act, which is coming up next year, and the reports that have been released over the past decade, namely those of your predecessor. It seems to me that we would do well to revisit the recommendations in those reports in order to take stock of the progress that's been made and recommend next steps to Canadians. I imagine you've already begun to give it some thought, but I'm very curious to hear what your vision is, how you plan to organize the report that will coincide with the act's 50th anniversary, and what key points you intend to address.

[Raymond Théberge]

Thank you for the question.

As you pointed out, next year will mark the 50th anniversary of the Official Languages Act. I can remember when the act came into law. Many things have changed over the past 50 years.

In the report, which we are already working on, it will be important to highlight the progress that's been made, because there has, in fact, been progress, particularly in the education and justice arenas. It will be equally important, however, to clearly identify the challenges that lie ahead. The report will recognize that, yes, some progress has been achieved, but that much more remains to be done. Clearly, the forces that drive a community's vitality will not change. Whether we are talking about demographics, culture, education or justice, those forces are the foundation on which communities are built.

The report will also address linguistic duality for the majority. It's a notion that must belong to all Canadians. As I touched on earlier, we must never take anything for granted. We must never stand still or let down our guard because to do so in a minority community is to go backwards.

The report will lay out how we need to position ourselves for the next 50 years, and the Official Languages Act will play a key role in that.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Am I to understand from your answer that you are likely to identify areas where progress has been insufficient or pressures communities currently face, as well as solutions to address them?

[Raymond Théberge]

Yes, precisely.

The benchmark for progress depends on the area we are talking about. In some areas, such as early childhood development, we've seen considerable progress, but in others, that hasn't been the case.

In my report, I will outline where things stand, and determine where we are headed versus where we should be headed. I will also lay out the challenges we will have to overcome.