Official Languages Committee on Oct. 18th, 2018

[Raymond Théberge]

I will discuss that with Ms. Joly this week. I think it is important for the committee and the government to realize that a great deal of work has already been done. Does it need to be redone? Do all the consultations that have been conducted need to be repeated? I think that key stakeholders could submit presentations to the committee, for example, but I feel that a tremendous amount of work has already been done.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Great, thank you.

I will come back to the report you submitted—your first annual report.

Ms. Saikaley, thank you for your work during the transition, as we know that this report is the product of a joint effort.

[Ghislaine Saikaley, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

Thank you.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

The report focuses specifically on immigration. That brings us to the issue of language tests for economic immigrants. We know that tests are more expensive for francophones than for anglophones.

Based on your recommendations, how should the government deal with this situation?

[Raymond Théberge]

As far as I know, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada is currently looking into the issue of language tests. The department is looking for different suppliers who would be able to provide tests at a lower cost. We know very well that the cost of tests is a significant obstacle for francophone immigrants. In the federal-provincial-territorial action plan for increasing francophone immigration outside of Quebec, that is part of the department's work. It is trying to find new suppliers.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Do you think the new action plan for official languages is on the right track regarding development in immigration?

[Raymond Théberge]

I'm pleased that there's a comprehensive federal-provincial-territorial plan on francophone immigration, which spans from the time when the immigrants are about to leave their country to when their settled. However, we must still overcome many challenges to meet our set targets. That said, positive steps have been taken in recent years.

[Mona Fortier, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Fortier.

Sylvie Boucher, you have the floor.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Hello, Mr. Théberge. You're meeting with us for the first time.

Hello, everyone.

I've been a member of the Standing Committee on Official Languages for a number of years. The same issues come up quite often.

Mr. Théberge, I don't know you very well. A number of organizations often want the Commissioner of Official Languages to act as a watchdog and to have teeth. You spoke of the three priorities in your mandate. The second priority is to “work with federal institutions and partners.” We're all aware of this issue and we must be honest. Some institutions are resistant to linguistic duality. When you work with federal institutions, there will always come a time when you need to have teeth, stand up and make waves for the benefit of linguistic minority communities. Will you be ready to do so for them and for us? When it comes time to stand up, speak up, play the role of a real watchdog and work with federal institutions, how will you put some teeth into your interventions?

[Raymond Théberge]

At this time, we can take a limited number of concrete actions, apart from the actions that enable us to conduct investigations and audits and ensure the implementation of recommendations. Take Air Canada, a repeat offender. We're all very familiar with the issue. In the case of this federal institution, the commissioner doesn't necessarily have the tools to make significant changes.

For 50 years, we've been conducting investigations and follow-ups. We must ask ourselves whether we've been able to change the behaviour of federal institutions. Do we have the necessary tools to change certain behaviours?

In the end, when we talk about federal institutions such as Air Canada or airport authorities, we want to know whether the institutions have changed their behaviour.

Among all the federal institutions, some are very compliant with the commissioner's recommendations. Perhaps the same compliance mechanisms applied to all federal institutions should be set out for Air Canada in the act.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Okay.

In this case, what could help you to have teeth in your role? When I talk about teeth, I'm thinking of the commissioners of official languages who had them.

I'm wondering whether you're able to stand up for linguistic minority communities and act as a watchdog for their rights? That's what we need for official languages.

[Raymond Théberge]

Certainly.

I feel very strongly about this part of the mandate. Honestly, everything we do is for community development. The issue of communications with and services to the public under part VII and the issue of justice are always discussed in terms of community development. If we're not doing it for this reason, then we must ask ourselves why we're doing it.

However, at some point, we must decide as a society whether duality deserves the tools needed to achieve it.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I'll ask my question another way.

You spoke well. We have expectations of the Commissioner of Official Languages. We've toured around and met with many organizations. I must say that our committee is non-partisan. We're all working together for linguistic duality. The Liberals, New Democrats and Conservatives don't show their colours here.

We often hear that you won't make waves. Mr. Théberge, today I'm asking you without any ulterior motive whether you will stand up and make waves if the linguistic minority communities require you to do so.

[Raymond Théberge]

The answer is yes.

I certainly intend to speak up more often when events in the country are perhaps outside the commissioner's mandate, but are of crucial importance to our communities.

The issue of vigilance has come up again in light of some recent events. We must be very vigilant about the gains that we've made, because we can lose them.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

I hope that we'll never lose them. What we've gained belongs to us.

The vitality of linguistic minority communities depends on the fact that we'll stand together and speak up loud and clear to help the communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Rioux, you now have the floor.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Théberge, I'm pleased to meet you. I'm a new member of the committee.

The people whom I refer to as “wise” here are very familiar with the issue and live in minority communities. Personally, I have contact with a certain minority community in my constituency. I'm talking about the Saint-Jean-sur-Richelieu Garrison. Over 5,000 recruits are trained at the Royal Military College Saint-Jean. A microcosm of Canada is found in this area.

Two weeks ago, we participated in a mission in Western Canada. We mainly visited Yukon, British Columbia and Saskatchewan. As I was reading the text of the act, something bothered me. Paragraph (b) of the purpose section states as follows:

support the development of English and French linguistic minority communities

This is part of the act. However, a statistic reported to us in Vancouver showed that four out of five children can't attend a French early childhood centre.

Could we focus on this aspect as part of the modernization of the act? Is that possible?

I believe that, if young people can't integrate into the French system from the beginning, we'll lose them afterward. We can talk about immigration and recruit francophone immigrants. However, if we lose the base that already exists, immigrants won't be interested in integrating into the French system.

[Raymond Théberge]

Obviously, we must ensure that we have the infrastructure needed to accommodate children in preschool and French daycares. The federal government and the provinces have a bilateral agreement on the creation of early childhood centres.

Is there enough funding available to meet the demand? That's another issue.

I believe that early childhood is part of an education continuum. Education starts in early childhood and continues until secondary school.

I don't know whether this type of aspect can be included in the modernization of the act. However, clearly it's one of the positive measures. We must ensure that children have access to French daycares and preschools in minority communities.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

You're saying that this aspect isn't currently included in the act. It's part of the federal-provincial agreements on education. I've heard that early childhood funding doesn't necessarily end up where it belongs, and that there's a lack of accountability.

Does your mandate include the task of ensuring that the money ends up in the right place and that minority communities receive the funding allocated to them?

[Raymond Théberge]

When it comes to the action plan, we're very interested in accountability, transparency and ensuring that resources and funding end up in the right place.

We'll analyze the situation and see the extent to which accountability is included in the agreements that we sign. It's extremely important. Some cases end up in court because certain provinces have used funding from one program to fund another program. The federal-provincial-territorial agreements must contain very strong language clauses, and the language clauses must include the accountability aspect.

[Jean Rioux, Liberal, Saint-Jean, QC]

Some people also told us that, to generate interest in maintaining their francophone culture, there must be a thriving cultural environment.

With regard to the Official Languages Act, is there any type of monitoring to ensure the promotion of anglophone and francophone cultures, as applicable, in minority communities?

[Raymond Théberge]

The cultural development of a community should probably be mentioned in part VII of the act.

One thing is clear. Communities express themselves through culture. That's how they demonstrate their identity. In very small minority communities, it's sometimes difficult to access cultural infrastructure. That's why it's important to have schools and community centres with cultural components and to create francophone spaces where few exist. It's a matter of finding ways to bring francophones together in spaces where they can experience their language and culture. I believe that, if we're considering modernizing part VII of the act, we must include positive measures and cultural development and vitality.