Evidence of meeting #121 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was languages.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Jean Johnson  President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Alain Dupuis  Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadienne du Canada
Emmanuella Lambropoulos  Saint-Laurent, Lib.
René Cormier  Senator, New Brunswick, ISG
Jean Rioux  Saint-Jean, Lib.

9:45 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Pursuant to standing order 108(3), we are continuing our study on the modernization of the Official Languages Act.

It is our great pleasure and honour to have with us this morning the Hon. René Cormier, the chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.

Welcome to the Standing Committee on Official Languages of the House of Commons, Mr. Senator.

I think we should have meetings between our two committees more often. It would certainly be very helpful.

You have about ten minutes for your presentation.

November 22nd, 2018 / 9:45 a.m.

René Cormier Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Honourable members of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, thank you for welcoming me here this morning to share the results of the work done by the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages on the modernization of the Official Languages Act.

First of all, I would like to congratulate you for the work accomplished within this committee, but also for the work each of you does to advance the status of both official languages in Canada. More than ever, I believe we need to reaffirm the importance of both official languages, to discuss the vitality of our minority language communities, and to promote and celebrate the richness of bilingualism and linguistic duality as the foundation of our Canadian federation.

I would like to take this opportunity to highlight the responsibility we as parliamentarians all share to encourage and bring about a positive dialogue surrounding the importance of our official languages as a founding principle of our federation.

For the work and the actions you have taken as a committee in that direction, I thank you sincerely.

I would also like to acknowledge the quality of the recent reports you have published. I'm thinking, for instance, of your report on community media or your report on access to justice.

My intervention today will be in two parts. First, I would like to briefly present our study in order for you to better understand what we have done and what we have left to do. Then I will elaborate on some key recommendations we have heard.

In April 2017, the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages was mandated to study the perspective of Canadians on the modernization of the Official Languages Act. Five segments of the population were targeted in this study: young people, official language communities, experts familiar with the evolution of the act, the justice sector, and federal institutions.

Since the beginning of our study, we have had the privilege of travelling and meeting with official language communities across Canada. During our hearings, we have so far heard from 170 witnesses and have received 42 briefs, and we still have a few months left before we complete this very important study.

To date, we have published two interim reports, which I will present briefly.

In February 2018, in St. Boniface, Manitoba, we released our first report on the youth perspective. This first report presents the proposals made by young people aged 14 to 25 to modernize the act. I must say, hon. colleagues, that the members of our committee were impressed by the commitment shown by these young people to official languages. In this report, as you will see, the things they call for include a more active promotion of both official languages and bilingualism, recognition of the role of the arts and culture in the transmission of language, measures to ensure better dialogue between official language communities, greater support for initiatives by official language communities and, finally, the potential of digital technology to achieve these objectives.

The second interim report, released on October 26 during our most recent fact-finding mission in Moncton, New Brunswick, focuses on the perspective of official language communities. We heard and received practical proposals from all sectors of society. Many of these proposals included a straightforward articulation of certain sections of the act, for all parts of the act, from the preamble to the mechanism for its implementation. I can't list them all in the time allotted to me, but I invite you to read this second report, if you haven't already, to round out my remarks.

What seems obvious to us and what thrills us in this report is that there is consistency and a great consensus between the country's English-speaking and French-speaking communities on the issues identified and the solutions proposed to ensure the modernization of the act, this quasi-constitutional piece of legislation.

In brief, here are some of the proposals we have received that have consensus: review the mechanisms for horizontal coordination and implementation of the act; appoint to the highest echelons one or more officials responsible for the act; give the act much more teeth by strengthening its oversight and accountability mechanisms; clarify certain terms and concepts used in the act; and ensure better participation of official language communities in the implementation of the act, particularly by establishing consultation mechanisms.

I will more specifically speak to four key propositions we have heard expressed on multiple occasions in a variety of different ways. There is an impressive consensus around the issues and directions that should be taken by the government in the modernization of this act.

One of the recommendations we often heard at our committee had to do with responsibility for implementing the act. The current model of responsibility shared between the Treasury Board and the Department of Canadian Heritage is in question.

The witnesses proposed that responsibility for the act be centralized within a central agency that would have the power to impose policies and statements regarding the implementation of the act government-wide. Some witnesses suggested that the Treasury Board should be responsible for implementation, as it already has the administrative tools, funding and authority to issue directives, as well as the ability to conduct internal audits. Others suggested that this responsibility be assigned to the Privy Council Office, which plays an important political role and could become a true leader in official languages. Finally, some simply want Canadian Heritage's responsibilities to be strengthened.

We also heard from many witnesses about the importance of including in modernized legislation a whole series of new provisions related to federal-provincial-territorial agreements. Many witnesses want certain obligations to be respected when negotiating, drafting and signing these agreements. For example, they would like to see the main community actors in the field concerned, such as education, participate in the development of these agreements. They also want language clauses to be included in the agreements to ensure that the funds will be used for the projects for which they are intended. Finally, they want to see effective and measurable accountability mechanisms included to ensure that the money transferred to the provinces will actually be used for the intended purpose.

The new act should also include new provisions to recognize, for example, the educational continuum and the importance of francophone immigration for the vitality of communities. We have even received proposals for amendments that should be made to the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, for example, to recognize these elements. Some witnesses also suggested that these two issues should be addressed in a new part of the Official Languages Act.

We also heard the need to include the action plan on official languages within the act to ensure that this important tool will always be available to the communities no matter the government in place. Many new clauses were proposed to include programs of this nature, such as the newly announced court challenges program, to make sure they are protected by the act.

We have also heard the necessity to better include the official language communities in the decision-making processes. Two major proposals were made in support. First, the idea was raised that an advisory board on official languages should be created and that the government should be mandated to meet with this board on a list of important issues.

Second, it was proposed that the obligation to take into account what is said during consultations be added to the act, as exists in other legislation in Canada.

Lastly, it was proposed that the powers of the Commissioner of Official Languages be reviewed, requiring him to initiate legal proceedings if certain criteria are met during an investigation, or exempting him from the requirement to obtain the complainant's approval before he can initiate a prosecution.

Many witnesses would like the Commissioner to have punitive powers. Some former commissioners we heard from don't think it's a good idea. They don't want the Commissioner to be both judge and jury. However, several other stakeholders suggested another solution: the creation in the act of an administrative tribunal responsible for official language issues.

In conclusion, our study continues until June 2019, when we will table our final report. In the meantime, we will release our last three interim reports: one on the experts familiar with the evolution of the act, one on the justice sector, and one on federal institutions. We have almost completed our work on the first two of these topics. All that remains is for us to hear from witnesses from federal institutions, the people who are primarily responsible for providing services in both official languages.

Thank you for your attention. I would be pleased to answer your questions.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you very much for your insight, Mr. Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.

You started by congratulating us on the work we are doing. Allow me to return the compliment.

9:55 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

Thank you.

9:55 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

I would also like to congratulate the Senate for the its work on official languages.

You mentioned that the act was quasi-constitutional. It is very important that we work in a positive way to promote official languages in Canada.

Without further ado, let's start the question period.

Mr. Clarke, you have the floor.

9:55 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Senator, thank you for being here this morning. I would also like to thank you for all the work you do on the Standing Senate Committee on Official Languages.

You ended with what interests me most this morning: should the Commissioner be given more coercive powers or should an administrative tribunal be established? Considering all the trips you've made and all the testimony you've heard, would you be able to tell us which option is the most favoured or desirable?

9:55 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

In fact, I believe there was no consensus on a particular option. Certainly the issue of the administrative tribunal has caught the attention of many witnesses and members of our committee. To better understand what an administrative tribunal means, we will hear from people who will be able to inform us about this.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

So you are going to look into this further.

10 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

Yes, we will do so in order to better specify in our final report what witnesses mean by an administrative tribunal and what it might look like. This proposal was made by many witnesses, but some argue that strengthening the Commissioner's powers would also be a way to give the act more teeth.

It is true that former commissioners have told us there is a danger in asking the commissioner to be both judge and jury. This poses some challenges because, on the one hand, commissioners are promoters and investigators and, on the other, they act on the results of investigations and take action to punish those who have not complied with the act. It seems to be a sensitive issue.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

If an administrative tribunal were established, should the powers of the Commissioner remain as they are or could the powers of the Commissioner be increased, despite the existence of this tribunal? Could both options be considered? What is your opinion and the opinion of the witnesses you heard from on this subject?

10 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

To answer your question properly, I won't give you my personal opinion. I'm here to report on what the witnesses have said on this issue.

I believe that people aren't against the existence of an administrative tribunal and the role currently played by the Commissioner. We were also told that the Commissioner already had quite significant powers that he could exercise to ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act. Some witnesses said that the current mandate of the Commissioner of Official Languages already allows him to strengthen his actions with the public. The question was framed in this perspective, rather than seeking to determine whether to create an administrative tribunal or to strengthen the Commissioner's powers.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

You'll still have to provide your opinion. You will understand why. Are there any topics that you think you will not have time to explore in your study and that you could suggest we focus on?

10 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

Do you want the complete list?

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Yes.

10 a.m.

Senator, New Brunswick, ISG

René Cormier

Here are some suggestions.

There are aspects of federal-provincial-territorial transfers that could be further explored.

There is the definition of the terms “positive measure” and “active offer”.

You could study part V of the act, which deals with language of work, and go back to the Mendelsohn-Borbey report.

You could study the Official Languages Regulations that deal with part IV, which have just been amended.

There is the requirement to consult.

You could look at the principle of services offered by and for official language communities and determine what is meant by that.

You could consider the question of the administrative tribunal, actually. You may wish to continue the study of part III of the act.

In terms of the central agency, as you can see, there is no unanimity on who should act as the central agency. There are a number of possibilities, and this certainly deserves to be explored further.

Finally, there is the issue of francophone immigration, which, like the education continuum, is considered a strategic sector. These important areas of activity should be explored further to see how they can be included in the act.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

That's a good list. I am pleased to see that it contains items on which we wanted to focus in particular, especially part VII.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

If I may, I would like to say that the bell may ring in the next few minutes to call us to a vote in the House. That's what I have just been told.

10 a.m.

Conservative

Alupa Clarke Conservative Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Oh, okay.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

If I want to give everyone a little time to speak, I have to move on to the next speaker.

Mr. Arseneault, you have the floor.

10 a.m.

Liberal

René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Cormier, it's a pleasure to have you here.

Before I begin, I would like to make a comment. Who is Mr. Cormier? He is a—

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

I'm sorry to interrupt, but the bell is ringing and calling us to a vote in the House. I therefore need unanimous consent to continue the meeting for about 10 minutes.

10 a.m.

NDP

François Choquette NDP Drummond, QC

Agreed.

10 a.m.

Some hon. members

Agreed.

10 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Denis Paradis

Thank you.

Let's continue.

10 a.m.

Liberal

René Arseneault Liberal Madawaska—Restigouche, NB

So we have five minutes left, is that correct?