Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2019

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

The French Language Services Commissioner will fulfill his duties and responsibilities through the ombudsman's office, but we are still talking about an independent status. The ombudsman, along with the appointed commissioner, will have the same obligations to investigate complaints about services in French and produce independent reports on the state of French services. In addition, he will have to report to the legislative assembly.

The mandate, which has now been transferred, provides for the possibility of a separate report on services in French to be included in the ombudsman's report and then submitted to the legislative assembly. The commissioner's role and status in terms of his mandate will remain independent in the sense that they are exercised through an officer of the assembly who is also independent. The value of independence is maintained. It is true that the commissioner will not report directly to the legislative assembly.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Allow me to add something, Mr. Chair. It will be very brief.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Okay, Mr. Choquette.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

In closing, I would just like to thank the witnesses for coming to meet with us and for participating in the discussion.

I know that this is not easy for you. Our main objective is to enable you to talk to the federal government in order to find solutions.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Choquette.

Mr. Samson, go ahead.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I also thank our witnesses.

I want to begin by thanking you, Ms. Fougère, for your honesty. You said that, in the aftermath of this situation, you provided the minister with its complete overview. As far as I understand, you have conducted analyses and specified what difficulties were associated with the cuts affecting the minority, but that was ignored. Be that as it may, you have done your job and I commend you for it.

Mr. Zegarac, you talked about finances. When the minister tells you that your department's budget must be cut by 3%, do you carry out a summary analysis or a more in-depth analysis? Do you just reduce all expenditures by 3%, finish the job in five minutes and go for a coffee or do you conduct a full analysis, which takes into account the pros, the cons, the difficulties, situations on the ground, and so on?

How do you proceed?

[George Zegarac]

For those items that are directed to us for conversation, we always try to support the minister with good analysis.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

If the minister asked you to cut 3% in your department, are you cutting across the board automatically, or are you analyzing the situation?

[George Zegarac]

No, and we didn't cut across the board automatically. We looked at areas that had not been expanded and that's why the government postponed some of this.

[Darrell Samson, Liberal, Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS]

My question wasn't about that. It was about when you get in that situation personally, how you deal with it.

The next point is this. When we negotiate and we see that one party is leaning hard to help, it seems to me if you're a good negotiator you're going to take advantage of that situation. If the premier of the province, Mr. Ford, sees them leaning, he'd say, “Okay, look, you pay 75% now and I'll pay 75% in three years because I don't have the money”. I didn't see that.

I guess I'm going to conclude by saying this. All of you answered the question, and I appreciate that, and said, in your personal opinions there was no mauvaise intention. I'll grant that I believe that fully.

I think that is poor leadership.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you, Mr. Samson.

Mr. Rioux, go ahead for two minutes.

[Jean Rioux]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It has been said that the commissioner will now report to the ombudsman, whose role is to receive complaints. However, the commissioner's role was not limited to that. He promoted francophonie in Ontario.

Do you agree that this aspect of his role will be lost to the detriment of Ontario's francophone minority?

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

No, that will not necessarily be the case. The current commissioner, whose mandate derives from the French Language Services Act, decided to exercise a fairly broad mandate in terms of his responsibilities. He does a lot of promotion work.

I repeat that the existing powers will remain and be enforced through the ombudsman and the French Language Services Commissioner. Of course, I cannot say what exact form that will take. I would nevertheless say that, for the time being, the mandate remains unchanged. It all depends on how the mandate is interpreted and how those in charge decide to exercise it.

[Jean Rioux]

In other words, the francophone community has reason for concern.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

No, that is not what I just said. I said the exact opposite. I just talked about the possibility of promotion based on the preamble to the French Language Services Act. It will be up to the commissioner to decide how to exercise his mandate. That possibility remains, but it will be realized through the ombudsman's office.

I want to clarify that the ombudsman is a very important agent of the Legislative Assembly who takes his mandate very seriously. He has previously said publicly that he was very enthusiastic about taking on that additional mandate related to services in French. He will have the support of a commissioner who will focus on services in French. Let's see what happens.

[Jean Rioux]

Thank you, Ms. Fougère.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rioux.

Finally, I want to thank the witnesses, on behalf of all of my colleagues, for this exchange I feel will really help us draft the report we will submit to the House of Commons.

I also want to take this opportunity to thank those joining me at the table. Lucie Lecomte and Christine Holke, our clerk, are doing amazing work.

I think this meeting has been very worthwhile.

[George Zegarac]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

The meeting is adjourned.