Official Languages Committee on Feb. 7th, 2019

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

I can't speak for the ombudsman. This will be done within the ombudsman's budget, which falls directly under the Legislative Assembly's Board of Internal Economy. I imagine that there will also be discussions within the Office of the Ombudsman.

It should also be noted that the ombudsman publicly stated that he was very enthusiastic about working closely with the French Language Services Commissioner to support the services.

[Mona Fortier]

The commissioner position has been eliminated and the new position of deputy ombudsman has been created. Is that correct?

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

The position of French Language Services Commissioner as it stood, meaning the position of officer who reported directly to the Legislative Assembly, has been eliminated. The commissioner position has been transferred to the Office of the Ombudsman. However, the French Language Services Commissioner position remains independent. The French Language Services Commissioner will be incorporated into the Office of the Ombudsman, along with, to my knowledge, the team that supports the commissioner.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Ms. Fortier.

We will suspend the meeting for a few minutes, but we'll be back soon.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We will resume our meeting.

Mr. Clarke, you have the floor.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the break, it was much appreciated.

Mr. Zegarac, you mentioned a word that was extremely interesting in your introduction and in speaking about your past history and experience in the matter. You said the word “continuum” in education. Could you share with us what analysis there is? What is your understanding concerning the continuum for francophones in education throughout Ontario, and also for the particular area of Toronto? How is it, the continuum?

[George Zegarac]

I think it's always been a priority to try to address that continuum. As I said, we have an assistant deputy minister who is in charge of francophone affairs and on the child care. We also had supports looking at making sure we had the continuum of services from the early years into education and post-secondary. We always looked at being more creative, I would say, in trying to find solutions for the francophone community. When we were doing dual credits in high-skills majors, we wanted to see what we had in terms of services in French as well.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You said you were looking for solutions. What can you do collectively to help the francophones in Toronto? Maybe it's already the fact. What are the measures you can do to help them to have a continuum to university, while the project goes forward when the fiscal situation becomes more healthy in Ontario? What are you going to do? What's your insight into that?

[George Zegarac]

As I mentioned, we have funding currently and we have discussions under way with the eight universities and affiliates and the two colleges to look at what we can do. The University of Ottawa is looking to expand its services. It had a relationship and delivers some programs with Glendon College.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Which francophone university is the closest to the GTA right now?

[George Zegarac]

Right now the Glendon campus, a part of York University, would be, and Collège Boréal, obviously.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

That's interesting.

Finally, sir, each year annually for the francophone programs for the official language minority groups, the federal government either through the action plan or through Canadian Heritage sends money to each province on a gratis basis. Some information was quite concerning. We learned that in Ontario it's around $2 to $3 per head, compared with other provinces where it's between $8 and $12. I've heard also that it depends on what the province puts forward, and then federal government tries to add the same amount. I would like to hear from both of you on that.

Do you think it would be necessary to increase this flow of money from the federal government on the per capita basis?

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

I believe you are referring to the Canada-Ontario Agreement on French-Language Services, which is different from the Protocol for Agreements for Minority-Language Education and Second-Language Instruction.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Nevertheless, there is a link where vitality is concerned.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

I don't want to minimize its importance. I'm simply saying it is another agreement.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We understand each other.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

At the provincial level, the agreement falls under the minister, Ms. Mulroney, and the Ministry of Francophone Affairs, of course.

It has been pointed out a few times that for more than a decade, Ontario has been receiving $1.4 million per year from the envelope for French services, which is part of the plan for official languages. Ontario receives $1.4 million in federal funding annually. The last agreement—

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

—which is being negotiated at this time—

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

No, it is coming to an end. Ontario has thus invested the equivalent of $13 million over the past five years, in addition to everything it already invests in services through the—

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I understand the specifics.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

For its part, the federal government provided $7 million over five years, or $1.4 million dollars annually.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

I don't understand. I thought that under the agreement, if the province invested $1 million, the federal government had to invest the same amount. But that is not what happened.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

In agreements in general, there is a principle according to which if the federal government commits to investing a certain amount, the province must invest an equivalent amount. It's called matching funds.

[Alupa Clarke, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

You are telling us that your ministry went beyond that.

[Marie-Lison Fougère]

If I may, in the context of the Agreement on French-Language Services, Ontario invested twice as much as the federal government.

I know that part VII of the Official Languages Act refers to measures to ensure the vitality of minority communities. It is extremely important to recognize the vital need to support French-language services. Quite often, in the various communities, especially in remote locations, it is not easy to access services. I know that the federal government has the same type of responsibility in its own areas of jurisdiction. French-language services are very important.

I'd like to add that the federal government, through Canadian Heritage, was asked to take a closer look at the scope of investments in French-language services. That request was also made by the ministers responsible for French-language services in the different provinces.

Let's go back a bit. The 2018 Ministerial Conference on the Canadian Francophonie communiqué, which was recent, stated that the provincial ministers responsible for French services or the francophonie found it regrettable that the federal government had not increased its contribution under the Agreement on French-Language Services. I'm referring to that agreement alone. That request was not made by Ontario.

In light of the large population and extremely complex and diverse geography of Ontario, the government invests large sums through its various departments to support French-language services. I worked on this file for several years and I always believed—and said so on many occasions—that French-language services play an essential role in the vitality of communities.

There are a lot of things that contribute to the vitality of francophone minorities, notably institutions and organizations, but access to services in French is extremely important. It is important here, and I imagine that it is very important elsewhere as well.