Official Languages Committee on March 19th, 2019

[Meri Huws]

Yes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

There are two tools here as concerns the commissioner. There's a tribunal for the people, organizations, or whoever would contest your decision, and there's one for you if somebody does not conform. Why was it important for your office not to rely on the tribunal to enforce legislation, instead of going back to a legal court, and to let the tribunal impose fines or impose whatever sanctions?

[Meri Huws]

The decision was made, when the legislation was put together—in order to achieve effective delivery or effective compliance with the standards—to place that responsibility on the commissioner as a first point of call. The commissioner can respond quickly and effectively. They saw it as more appropriate that it would be the commissioner who dealt with cases in the first instance and who also sought compliance.

We have a model in Wales. We have commissioners in other areas. Their powers aren't as strong as mine. We have a tradition. We have a children's commissioner. We have an older people's commissioner. They would also have statutory powers as well. Mine are stronger. It's a model that we see as working, because there's also belief that a tribunal can be very impersonal, and that having reference to a single person, an independent commissioner, is a good model to secure justice.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Do I have any time left, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

A little bit.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

That's good.

What strikes me is that it's very effective and quick with a tribunal, but it is a tool for the organizations or whoever does not respect the legislation. It's a tool for them.

For the Welsh people, if they cannot get a solution with your office, then you, as a commissioner, have to appeal to the legal process, with a real judge. For the people who need to be respected in their language, that's a long process.

It is quicker for the offenders. They can have access to a tribunal quickly.

[Meri Huws]

Our experience is that you can have access to a commissioner much faster than to a tribunal. Is it fair for me to say that you are talking about the norm being people not complying, organizations not complying? My experience over the past seven years—I may have been lucky—is that organizations, public sector organizations, wish to comply.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Maybe Welsh organizations are more open to compliance, but I would say that in other countries it's not always like that.

Let's take a basic experience. Somebody wants to have access to a government office in Wales and his language, Welsh, is not respected. He refers to your office. Then you ask that governmental institution to conform. It doesn't want to. That person who appealed to your office will have to wait until you, as commissioner, refer that file to a legal court, with a real judge. It is expensive. It's long. Am I correct?

[Meri Huws]

Yes, but I have other powers, then, to force compliance.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Oh. How?

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Mr. Arseneault, I have to interrupt you because your time is up.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I'm sorry, but there is another questioner, Bernard Généreux.

Mr. Généreux, you have three minutes.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Ms. Huws.

I'm going to have to be quick because we don't have much time.

Do you have a minister with whom you collaborate? Do you have to reply to a minister in the government?

[Meri Huws]

Legally, I'm independent. I'm what's known as a corporation sole, so I am a legal entity. We are funded through the Welsh government. Our funding stream comes from the Welsh public purse, but ultimately I am independent and I regulate the Welsh government as well. Most of our work—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

If someone is not complying, which could be the government or a private body, if you had to fine a government body £5,000, who would pay and to whom? If the government is at fault, you would have to fine the government, which you never have—but wouldn't you have to fine the government?

[Meri Huws]

Yes, I could impose a fine on the Welsh government. I don't think that would be my first choice because that would be a waste of public funding, but—

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

I believe that doesn't make sense, that's why everybody is laughing here.

Do you have the power to regulate a private body as well, such as an airline or a private company?

[Meri Huws]

No. We regulate public sector bodies. With the 2011 legislation there was a long discussion about including the banking sector and supermarkets within legislation. Because of very effective lobbying, they were not included at that point, but it remains a discussion. There are discussions about including parts of the private sector within our legislation in the future, but not at present.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much, Mr. Généreux.

Thank you very much, Meri, for your contribution to the work of our committee.

We would love to see you in person in Ottawa at some point. It has been a pleasure.

[Meri Huws]

Diolch yn fawr. Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you.

The committee is adjourned to the call of the chair.