Evidence of meeting #48 for Official Languages in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was questions.
A recording is available from Parliament.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Okay.
Mr. Power, you said earlier that you participated in a court case that lasted 320 days, or 230 days—I don't remember the exact number and I may have the digits reversed. Regardless, what case was it exactly? Was it the Mahe case?
12:45 p.m.
Partner and Sessional Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
It was the Conseil scolaire francophone de la Colombie-Britannique and the Fédération des parents francophones de Colombie-Britannique case.
12:45 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
What were the findings of the case, which lasted such a long time? Do you think you advanced the cause, at least in the province or at the federal level?
12:45 p.m.
Partner and Sessional Professor, Faculty of Law, University of Ottawa, As an Individual
There's no doubt, Mr. Généreux, that the Conseil scolaire and the Fédération des parents advanced the cause in British Columbia. Schools will be established all over the province. We hope to see changes in the census, an increase in funding for school transportation, and the list goes on.
We also want the decision to make it easier for the Canada Lands Company to sell certain land in Vancouver.
The decision led to many changes. I think the province's francophone community should be commended for taking on such a major challenge.
12:50 p.m.
Conservative
Bernard Généreux Conservative Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC
Is there a cause and effect relationship, in some way or another, with regard to the French immersion education issue? My sister taught French immersion classes in Vancouver for almost 30 years, and I know there are waiting lists across Canada for access to these classes. I would say there's a desire to establish French immersion schools around the country. Many exchanges also take place between the provinces. Representatives from a number of schools come to Canada, to Quebec, to—
12:50 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP François Choquette
Thank you, Mr. Généreux. Unfortunately, your time is up.
We'll now move on to Mr. Vandal.
February 21st, 2017 / 12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
My first question is for Mr. Power and Mr. Roy.
Our briefing note mentions the Mahe case, which was heard by the Supreme Court of Canada. Could you explain why the court's decision is important?
12:50 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
The Mahe decision is the first major decision rendered by the Supreme Court of Canada with respect to education and official language minority communities. It's a case from Alberta that was heard in 1990, and one of the parties was an Edmonton-area school. The case involved section 23 of the charter, and in its decision, the court explained the purpose of that section.
To help you fully grasp the significance of the Mahe decision, I would refer you to point 3 on page 4 of our brief. We've provided a pertinent excerpt of the court's unanimous reasons, written by Chief Justice Dickson. He addresses the “where numbers warrant” concept, stating that it is impossible to determine the relevant figure exactly but that the figure must take into account the potential demand for the service, in other words, what we are trying to ascertain through the census, and the known demand. It is important to know the potential demand. Right now, only one of the three categories is being evaluated.
We are basically recommending that you implement the findings in the Mahe decision, or foster the conditions for implementation.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Does the charter include rights, other than those of rights-holders, that the government needs figures and data to justify?
Are there examples?
12:50 p.m.
Lawyer, As an Individual
There are two.
Section 23 is the first. The second is section 20(1), which deals with government services and communications.
Section 23 refers to application where numbers warrant, and section 20 refers to the existence of significant demand for the service. The questions would be tremendously helpful in both cases.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
My next question is for Ms. Lanthier or Ms. Côté.
In November 2016, the government announced that it would modernize federal regulations governing where it must offer its services in the minority official language. Does that initiative tie into what we are discussing today?
12:50 p.m.
President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes du Canada (FCFA)
I think so, yes.
The government is working on modernizing the rules. One option being considered is moving towards a more inclusive definition of the term “francophone”, as Ontario has done. That would mean including references to speaking French and so forth. The modernizing of services is another element being discussed. It's important to know who is on the receiving end of the services being provided and to have reliable data in order to determine who the people likely to receive French-language services are and where they live. That would also be important in the context of this initiative.
12:50 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
Ms. Côté, would you care to add anything on the subject?
12:50 p.m.
Diane Côté Acting Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes du Canada (FCFA)
When it comes to services and schools, I wanted to point out that coverage is always insufficient. As soon as a school is built, it fills up. Even when demand estimates are done, people's interest in the service is underestimated. As they say, if you build it, they will come. That is absolutely the case in our communities, in terms of federal services and schools alike.
With respect to federal services, when an active offer is made—and Mr. Boileau can confirm this—clients request the service. Otherwise, they do not.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Dan Vandal Liberal Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB
That's actually nothing new. The phenomenon has been around for some 30 years.
Has the FCFA already asked the government to take action in this area?
12:55 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes du Canada (FCFA)
The FCFA first made the request in the early 1990s and repeated the request until Statistics Canada rejected it point-blank after the 2001 census. We are now renewing our request.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
What year are you referring to?
12:55 p.m.
Acting Director General, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes du Canada (FCFA)
In the early 1990s, we began asking that the census include these questions.
12:55 p.m.
Conservative
Sylvie Boucher Conservative Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île dOrléans—Charlevoix, QC
You were then told no?
12:55 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP François Choquette
Ms. Boucher, it's not your turn.
Mr. Vandal, I'm going to give you a minute and a half.
12:55 p.m.
Liberal
Darrell Samson Liberal Sackville—Preston—Chezzetcook, NS
So that was 27 years ago.
Coming back to Mr. Roy's brief, I'd like to discuss the federal government's responsibility to collect the data. Earlier, we were discussing the possibility of the provinces assuming the responsibility. In 1990, the responsibility was entrusted to the provinces, but it took a long time.
In Nova Scotia, for example, the community had to go to court for the right to open a few schools. Even though the right existed, the responsibility had not been assumed. It is true that, because of the Doucet-Boudreau decision, six months later, the government had to explain what it had done. To my mind, it is first and foremost the federal government who, under the charter—its charter—must see to it that the necessary data are available to the communities and provinces.
12:55 p.m.
President, Fédération des communautés francophones et acadiennes du Canada (FCFA)
We talked about positive measures. Including questions in the census in order to collect the data could represent quite a positive measure as far as Statistics Canada is concerned.
12:55 p.m.
NDP
The Vice-Chair NDP François Choquette
Thank you, Mr. Samson.
Thank you to our witnesses, Commissioner Boileau, Mr. Power, Mr. Roy, as well as Ms. Côté and Ms. Lanthier, of the FCFA. The meeting was very informative. This was an extremely pertinent and beneficial study. Listening to you, we can easily see why it is so important to improve the census questions to obtain a true enumeration of rights-holders.
I think the committee will produce a very useful report over the next few days.
Thank you all.
The meeting is adjourned.