Official Languages Committee on Oct. 5th, 2017

[Bruce Bergen]

We're going to have a different kind of justice system. You're right; when the commissioner forms the belief on reasonable grounds that there has been an offence under the act committed, then she's required under the law to refer the matter to the police. We refer it to the RCMP and then they investigate. They have to determine whether the offence has actually occurred, whether somebody was being paid to lobby, whether they were lobbying with specified things that are set out in the act, whether they should have registered but didn't, and then they have to determine whether it's in the public interest to lay a charge and commence court action.

[Bernard Généreux, Conservative, Montmagny—L'Islet—Kamouraska—Rivière-du-Loup, QC]

But she has a choice.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Your speaking time has ended, Mr. Généreux.

[Bruce Bergen]

When she has reasonable grounds to believe an offence has occurred then she's required to refer it the RCMP.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Thank you, Mr. Bergen.

I'm told that two Liberal members, Mr. Arseneault and Mr. Vandal, will share the next six minutes.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

I have only one question.

Is there ever a situation where you settle out of court?

[Bruce Bergen]

We don't really settle out of court per se. When a prosecution is started it's not actually our office that does the prosecutions. It's the police and the Public Prosecution Service of Canada. In fact, there could be a plea bargain in a case like that, or in any case. As I mentioned, technically if a consultant lobbyist is required to register he's required to register within 10 days. So really on the 11th, 12th, or the 15th day that person is in breach of the law. If we get a situation like that, we will not refer that file to the RCMP because they will say, “It's not in the public interest to prosecute that person”. What we will do is send them a letter and tell them, “Don't do that again and we'll be monitoring you essentially”.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Is there a fine imposed?

[Bruce Bergen]

There is no fine at that stage.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

There is no monetary penalty at that point?

[Bruce Bergen]

No, the commissioner does not have that authority.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

She doesn't have that authority.

[Bruce Bergen]

That's correct.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Ms. Robinson-Dalpé, your administrative penalties are not punitive as such. They exist only to reinforce incentives. Is that right?

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

Indeed, it's to encourage compliance.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

The limit for the fines is set at $500, is that right?

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

That's correct. For a first offence, the penalty is $100.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

That's what's set out in the legislation that governs you, right?

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

That's what allows us to do that, yes.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

That said, there's nothing preventing an administrative penalty of $2,000.

[Lyne Robinson-Dalpé]

That's correct. For our part, we're limited to the amounts included in the Conflict of Interest Act.

[Dan Vandal, Liberal, Saint Boniface—Saint Vital, MB]

Okay. I understand.

Thank you. That's all.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

Mr. Arseneault, you have four minutes.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

There are four minutes left? I thought I understood that there were three minutes to share.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Alupa Clarke]

You still have speaking time. The floor is yours.