Official Languages Committee on Nov. 21st, 2017

[Chief Justice Jacques Fournier]

Certainly, it has to be happening elsewhere. I am thinking about European states that are trilingual. However, right now, the issue is money. It can easily be done, but it needs a little funding. SOQUIJ exists and has the equipment. But it has to get bigger because what is being done now is clearly not enough.

What we want to export is about federal law. It makes it an official languages issue. That is also the reason why we are turning to you to pass on the message that this is not right. We went to a lot of trouble to do the Interpretation Act on the duality of legal traditions and the Official Languages Act. However, nothing is happening with the jurisprudence; it is not moving. It is positive law; that is why we want to export it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

[René Arseneault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We will go to Mr. Choquette, MP for Drummond, right away.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, thank you very much for agreeing to talk to us on a very important issue: equal access to jurisprudence and the impact of jurisprudence across Canada.

Before I ask my first question, I would like to ask the chair if he can ensure that there is follow-up on the questions I asked the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice earlier, so that we have the answers before the winter break.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

I took note of your comment. We can talk about it right after the witnesses' appearance.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

We will spend a bit of time in camera to prepare the future business. We are going to talk about it then.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, do you know how much money is currently being invested in SOQUIJ? How much more may be needed?

Contrary to what Mr. Arseneault seemed to be saying, I think it's up to the federal government to ensure compliance with the Official Languages Act and to promote official language communities across the country. In my humble opinion, access to justice in both official languages and the dissemination of the major cases in both official languages are the responsibilities of the federal government, no question.

Do you know how much money is currently being invested in SOQUIJ and how much more is required to meet your needs?

[Chief Justice Jacques Fournier]

No. Honestly, it would be a guessing game and my answer might mislead you.

The amount is to the tune of a few million dollars, but I don't know the number exactly.

[Paul-Matthieu Grondin]

I can make a clarification.

If I'm not mistaken, there was some funding until 2012, which was then terminated. The funding must definitely increase because it was not enough. As soon as we receive it, we will be able to translate more decisions.

Of course, the more funding we have, the more decisions we'll be able to translate. It's not complicated, it's the rule of three.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

I was trying to understand just now. I'm not an expert on the issue.

Are rulings translated in Quebec and, if so, how many? Just now, you were saying that the decisions are written in the language of the losing party. Apart from that, are rulings being translated because they create case law, or are there no rulings creating case law? Of course, at some point, you are the ones deciding which rulings are important and will become case law. Are some translated or are there none right now?

[Jacques Fournier]

There are some. That's what I was telling Mr. Arseneault earlier. On occasion, the Court of Appeal will prepare its ruling in both languages, but that's still not the common practice.

SOQUIJ will soon take the lead in the area.

The translation of a decision is often requested by a member of the public for whatever reason; the person may not be satisfied with the ruling, or they may be so pleased that they want to see it in their own language. However, the translations are terrible. At times, you could swear that a computer translated the text word for word. That said, the translation of rulings is still a marginal practice. As a result, the budget earmarked for translation is insufficient compared to the importance I at least attach to it.

What we know and what we are saying is that a quasi-governmental institution exists, that it is able to act right now and that it is in the process of equipping itself to carry the ball. This is a good opportunity to talk to that ball-carrier to figure out how far it will be taken.

As a francophone Canadian with a background in civil law, I think it's important for the rest of the country to know what I write and what I think. The “I” is clearly generic in this case. I'm not talking about myself; I hardly write anymore.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

Of course, the best solution is SOQUIJ, which we were talking about earlier.

We often wonder about the best way to determine the most important judgments that should be translated. You mentioned that a committee of experts could decide.

Could you clarify your thought? Who should determine the importance of rulings? What would the process be to determine which judgments are important and should be systematically translated?

[Chief Justice Jacques Fournier]

Now, thanks to computers, almost everything is published. However, until perhaps 15 or 20 years ago, committees used to oversee what was being published. SOQUIJ had one. It was an editorial committee whose mandate was to check what was being published and to determine what was of interest.

The only thing we would do is to provide a slightly different direction so that they wonder, when dealing with public law, whether the rulings are of interest for our fellow judges and lawyers, or whether our professor friends should study them to see what solutions Quebec has come up with. It is an editorial committee, simply put.

I don't know how many people SOQUIJ has. Perhaps four, perhaps eight, but not a whole lot.

[Paul-Matthieu Grondin]

SOQUIJ's mission is really to disseminate legal information. The organization is therefore perfectly equipped to make those decisions.

[François Choquette, NDP, Drummond, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

For the benefit of all members of the committee, could you explain what SOQUIJ is?

[Paul-Matthieu Grondin]

Yes. We use acronyms a lot. SOQUIJ is the Société québécoise d'information juridique. It is a Quebec crown corporation.

[The Chair, Liberal, Denis Paradis]

Thank you very much.

We will now turn to Ms. Lapointe.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I was just about to ask what the acronym stands for. Although I'm from Quebec, I'm not from the legal community unlike a number of the people here today.

So it's the Société québécoise d'information juridique. The provincial government is therefore funding this organization. You are saying that it has four to eight people.

[Chief Justice Jacques Fournier]

Just a moment, we have to be careful. SOQUIJ translates rulings, but that's a small part of its mission. SOQUIJ's mission is really to gather case law, to determine which judgments or cases, if dealing with appeal courts, are more important, to make summaries and to publish them in specialized journals. That's SOQUIJ's mission. At the same time, only marginally, I repeat, does the organization handle translation. However, that's not its primary mission.

When I say four, six, seven or eight people, I'm only talking about the editorial committee that is going to read the rulings.

Now, thanks to electronic distribution, everything is accessible. They have lawyers who read ruling after ruling and, at some point, they find one of interest. A case-compendium author will write a summary of it and, as a result, the distribution of the ruling will become more significant, because users searching with keywords will know that they are in the right area.

We can add to this very mission and decide that we will now add a step, by reviewing federal law and criminal law to determine which decisions are important for a specific reason, and that we will translate and export them.

That would be done first at the level of the Court of Appeal, because of its authority, but many rulings are also rendered in the lower courts. For instance, 99% of the cases heard in the Court of Quebec fall under criminal law. Even in Quebec, this fact is often ignored. The Court of Quebec has excellent judges who could provide outstanding services to all Canadians. That's our thinking.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

A little earlier, you said that SOQUIJ summarizes the rulings that it deems worthwhile.

[Chief Justice Jacques Fournier]

An editorial committee does that.

[Linda Lapointe, Liberal, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

The editorial committee determines which judgments will have an impact on the jurisprudence as a whole.